Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

gfplux

BobQ wrote: »

So what is the border solution for UK/Eire?

There was some suggestion that it might be based on the EU/Turkey system which involves a customs union.

Would those who see Brexit as being outside of a free trade area and a customs union care to suggest how the border issue is resolved.

Being unenthusiastic about Brexit, but trying to accept the decision to leave, it concerns me that the Irish border solution is still unresolved and the same dismissive attitudes to it that pervaded the referendum debate are still no better defined than they were 18 months ago. Can one of evangelists explain how it will work?

Surely if there is no clarity we should be erecting border posts and walls along the border NOW? Or are we relying on it being "all right on the night" come 2359 on 28 March 19? when frictionless trade will take place across a border with immigration checks manned by volunteers in a hastily installed garden shed?

I understand a new Dads Army of Border guards are being recruited by the British Government. Sounds a perfect job for people of a certain mind set.

gfplux

BobQ wrote: »

So what is the border solution for UK/Eire?

There was some suggestion that it might be based on the EU/Turkey system which involves a customs union.

Would those who see Brexit as being outside of a free trade area and a customs union care to suggest how the border issue is resolved.

Being unenthusiastic about Brexit, but trying to accept the decision to leave, it concerns me that the Irish border solution is still unresolved and the same dismissive attitudes to it that pervaded the referendum debate are still no better defined than they were 18 months ago. Can one of evangelists explain how it will work?

Surely if there is no clarity we should be erecting border posts and walls along the border NOW? Or are we relying on it being "all right on the night" come 2359 on 28 March 19? when frictionless trade will take place across a border with immigration checks manned by volunteers in a hastily installed garden shed?

I understand a new Dads Army of Border guards are being recruited by the British Government. Sounds a perfect job for people of a certain mind set.

PS, looks to me as new thread needs creating to discuss the war!

Arklight

Tromking wrote: »

.....and yet again it chose the principled position and is seeking (so far) to carry out the wishes of its people. Lesser democracies would and have chosen a different path. You live in a remarkable country.

If it was carrying out the wishes of the majority of its people the government would announce a soft Brexit with free movement and membership of the single market. It would be a pointless abrogation of influence for no change in the status quo but that seems to be where we've ended up.


That fact that even this isn't happening at the moment has everything to do with UKIP, the Tory Right, and the Tory press, and nothing to do with democracy.

tracey3596

gfplux wrote: »

I understand a new Dads Army of Border guards are being recruited by the British Government. Sounds a perfect job for people of a certain mind set.

PS, looks to me as new thread needs creating to discuss the war!

You understand incorrectly.
Read those media reports again and this time pay attention to the use of words like "could" and "consider".


Did you find it so funny that you needed to post twice?
Do you know how to remove a post?

Honey_Badger

BobQ wrote: »

But what value is served in this historical analysis in a Brexit thread?

None, other than to counter some of the ridiculous propaganda being spouted by the pro-EU cheerleaders.

tracey3596

Arklight wrote: »

By the way, the "British State" was standing for us to remain in the EU, until the day after it lost the referendum it thought it would win.

You do realise that the "British State" is actually that as voted for by the British public and if you are referring to the Civil Service are politically independent, doing only the bidding of the British public via government?

We’re politically impartial and independent of government

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/civil-service/about

So quite what part of the "British State" do you think was "standing for us to remain in the EU" that is not elected, and then since this electorate voted to leave should not do the bidding of their electorate?

Arklight

Tromking wrote: »

You can’t argue with someone who thinks that 20th century Britain had a moral equivalence with Hitlers Germany and Stalin’s Russia.

29 million Indians starved to death in the 19th Century under British rule. Before the British arrived India was the richest country on the globe.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-truth-our-empire-killed-millions-404631.html


Not including all the others that were just put up against walls and shot or machine gunned to death when protesting.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-35-million-deaths-britain-shashi-tharoor-british-empire-a7627041.html

Talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, Churchill said: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”

The British interred 80,000 Kenyans and killed 25,000 in concentration camps. One of those tortured by having his genitals mutilated with pliers, a common torture practice by the occupiers, was Obama's grandfather.


https://www.vox.com/2016/4/22/11487098/obama-british-grandfather-kenya


What about the oppression and invasion of Ireland? A country we still occupy part of.


How many people died while the British were invading 9/10 countries on the planet?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html


Yes on balance I think the Germans were worse, over a shorter period of time. I'm not sure that's a reason for celebration. They appear to have some awareness of their past as well, something which is lacking here.

tracey3596

Why stop there Arklight?

Why not discuss for example the millions killed and many more subjugated by the Romans, or by the ancient Greeks?
Or more recently the Portuguese colonisation of the Americas or the French colonisation of Africa. Nothing about the Dutch East India Company or West India company either or one of the largest empires in history, that of Spain.

Oh hang on, they weren't British atrocities and subjugations, were they?

Now maybe if you want to discuss imperialism and atrocities committed you could start a thread rather than - as has been asked before - posting off-topic meanderings on this one?

Arklight

tracey3596 wrote: »

Why stop there Arklight?

Why not discuss for example the millions killed and many more subjugated by the Romans, or by the ancient Greeks?
Or more recently the Portuguese colonisation of the Americas or the French colonisation of Africa. Nothing about the Dutch East India Company or West India company either or one of the largest empires in history, that of Spain.

Oh hang on, they weren't British atrocities and subjugations, were they?

Now maybe if you want to discuss imperialism and atrocities committed you could start a thread rather than - as has been asked before - posting off-topic meanderings on this one?

Actually Tracey, it's a valid rebuttal to the, "Brexit's AOK because we are the good guys and the Europeans are all evil especially the Germans because of the war," argument.


I'm pleased you are keen to move on and put it behind you though.

tracey3596

Arklight wrote: »

Actually Tracey, it's a valid rebuttal to the, "Brexit's AOK because we are the good guys and the Europeans are all evil especially the Germans because of the war," argument.

1/ There is no such argument except in your imagination.
2/ You appear not to realise that all the countries mentioned in my earlier post are European which - were your assertion above true - would in fact corroborate that "argument" and not rebut it as you think you did.

Arklight wrote: »

I'm pleased you are keen to move on and put it behind you though.

Quite, as should you.
Not to do so is in honesty as inconsequential as it would be to harbour a grudge against some ancient descendent for ignoring advice and allegedly taking a bite of an apple.