Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

tracey3596

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

No I'm pretty sure I don't.

Blaming immigrants for the rise of far right nationalist movements in Europe is utterly risible, and makes as much sense as blaming Jews for the rise of Hitler.

But Tromking wasn't "Blaming immigrants for the rise of far right nationalist movements in Europe" and you know that but as usual, sadly prefer to misinterpret what was said, which was

Tromking wrote: »

Did he mention the burgeoning social problems in Sweden

Tromking was clearly talking about Sweden and there at least it appears true.
Have a read of the following and learn why it is true for Sweden.
https://intpolicydigest.org/2017/10/03/unhinged-rise-swedish-nationalism/

tracey3596

Chatham House, described by Wiki as "the world's most influential non-U.S. think tank", briefly discusses some of the challenges facing the EU and describes what they call "tribes" which will they say will shape the future of the EU.

It is no secret that the European Union is facing many challenges. Despite a wave of optimism in the first half of 2017, following Emmanuel Macron’s triumph and the defeat of Marine Le Pen, it is now clear that the optimism was overstated. As the EU heads into 2018, serious challenges remain. Political divisions between East and West, a lingering refugee crisis, strong support for populist parties, and Brexit are the most prominent. Volatility in Italy, continuing public support for the populist right Sweden Democrats and entrenched support for Viktor Orb!n in Hungary − three countries that have elections in 2018 − will dominate debates about the broader direction of Europe.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/twt/europe-s-unheard-majority

To find your tribe click "find your tribe" from the link below.
https://tribes.chathamhouse.org/

Moby

Honey_Badger wrote: »

If you can’t make a valid argument, why not make fatuous insults. It’s a great pity that’s all you seem able to do.

I am making a valid argument. Brexit is an inward looking escape from the wider world.

Moby

StevieJ wrote: »

British Parliament gets to vote and influence our laws a good week for democracy, I think.

Yes people seem to like sovereignty when it aligns with their views.

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

I am making a valid argument. Brexit is an inward looking escape from the wider world.

How is making comments like

...and they say travel broadens the mind

making a valid argument?

How is Brexit "an inward looking escape from the wider world"? To me being a member of the EU isolates us from the wide world that exists outside of the EU.

Moby

Honey_Badger wrote: »

How is making comments like making a valid argument?

How is Brexit "an inward looking escape from the wider world"? To me being a member of the EU isolates us from the wide world that exists outside of the EU.

Let me explain....it's fatuous to claim brexit was an outward looking vote. Brexit was a vote about immigration, nothing more nothing less. Also can you explain in what way being a member of the EU has stopped us being part of the wider world? All we have done is restrict our access to the part of it which is on our doorstep. In what way is that good?

StevieJ

Moby wrote: »

Yes people seem to like sovereignty when it aligns with their views.

And referendums suddenly become undemocratic (once you have one in the bag ).

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

Let me explain....it's fatuous to claim brexit was an outward looking vote. Brexit was a vote about immigration, nothing more nothing less.

I voted for Brexit and immigration was not an issue that influenced my vote. I would suggest it is far more fatuous to claim that you absolutely know why 52% of voters voted the way that they did.

My family is from the one part of Scotland that voted for Brexit, and it wasn't to do with immigration but had a lot to do with the Common Fisheries Policy.

Moby wrote: »

Also can you explain in what way being a member of the EU has stopped us being part of the wider world?

As you first raised this issue, how is "Brexit is an inward looking escape from the wider world"? Being in the EU means that in a number of circumstances the EU talks to other countries, rather than the British Government.

tracey3596

Honey_Badger wrote: »

As you first raised this issue, how is "Brexit is an inward looking escape from the wider world"? Being in the EU means that in a number of circumstances the EU talks to other countries, rather than the British Government.

Perhaps Moby could answer why - if the EU are NOT protectionist and inward-looking - the UK are not allowed to negotiate trade deals with the USA, India, NZ & Oz for just a few examples until we have actually left the EU?

Also Moby and those who thanked his post might like to comment upon the damage that EU protectionism continues to cause various African countries, see below.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/28/the-european-union-is-an-ongoing-disaster-for-africa

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/africa-eu-poverty-james-cleverly_uk_5720d08be4b0a1e971cad84f

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/

https://capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/

tracey3596

Those same posters might also like to consider the EU's impending actions against Austria, Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary because these countries do not toe the EU's line to see EU protectionism in action.
Small wonder that populism is on the rise across Europe.

European politics: leaders struggle to contain rising populism

https://www.ft.com/content/7d012adc-dc32-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

What is more, it looks like these populists are about to pool resources and ideas to become more effective in the coming year's elections across the EU.

In a sign of growing unity among Europe's far-right leaders, Marine Le Pen of France and Geert Wilders of the Netherlands are among several controversial figures due to meet in Prague for the start of a two-day conference to discuss their regional ambitions.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/leaders-meet-prague-171215191614697.html

But no, according to those desperate remainers who are so fearful of letting go of their beloved EU it is Brexiters that are protectionist and inward-looking when we look outwards and want to trade globally rather than continue to be hamstrung by the EU.