Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Sapphire

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Imagined :eek: Mass immigration has totally changed this country, on Sundays round here I barely hear an English word spoken in the local supermarkets, and we live in a small town not a big city, go to a local city any time of the day and there is plenty of places that you will not see a white face or hear an English word.

The NHS spends a fortune on translation services, and people coming to this country suddenly realise they don't have to pay to have babies, and actually get paid to have them, have you checked the immigrant birth rate?

There is a young woman selling Big Issue in the local town, I heard someone asking her why she was homeless, she answered in broken English that she came here to get given a home and they wouldn't give her one. That is what a lot of immigrants expect.

The country is groaning under the weight of immigration, and, apart from anything else, we only have limited resources, power stations are near capacity, we only have a certain amount of water to go around, the roads are packed, and we are letting poor drivers onto our roads, the amount of life ending and/or changing crashes I have heard of that are caused by Polish drivers is ridiculous, and yes, I know our people cause them too, but I get the impression the level of skill of Polish drivers is lower than the skill required here.

So no, it is not an imagined problem, it is a very real problem.

I agree with much of you say. However, it is wrong to single out just Polish drivers. The majority of Poles who come here work hard and are prepared to do jobs many of the British younger generations are simply too spoilt to do.

The issue of work ethics, working hard and a desire to better yourself through your own efforts must be addressed so that the country can get on its feet and does not need to import migrants. We are only a small island and cannot absorb a never-ending number of people, who should be improving their own countries rather than running away from (or in some cases with) the problems they have in their own territories.

Employing talent from overseas when needed is a good thing, but immigration should certainly not be the free for all it is now. It's causing resentment that will only increase if it is not put a stop to.

mrginge

Herzlos wrote: »

Can you explain where he's wrong?

Really?

Ok

Today we are at point A

When we finally exit we will be at point B

B - A = C

C is everything that is different.

You could say that C = D + E - F + G - H if you really wanted to.

But C is still C which is the net difference between A and B

Anyone else want some primary school maths explaining to them?

mayonnaise

ilovehouses wrote: »

So is the divorce bill a standalone deal or dependent upon whether we like the trade deal we eventually agree?

No, please pay attention there at the back of the class.
Professor ginge already explained that it is dependent upon the movement on FoM we'll get.

mrginge wrote: »

... if ‘the country’ pays out 40bn and in return gets a small movement on FoM

mrschaucer

As far as I can see the BBC are totally ignoring this so far ...
https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-politics-spd-europe/german-spd-leader-seeks-united-states-of-europe-by-2025-idUSA5N1JY01W
and
https://www.ft.com/content/ec2a8982-db4a-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482
Schulz is making this a condition of future talks with Angela Merkel. Any country which doesn't want to sign up to the USE would automatically leave the eu.

Herzlos

mrginge wrote: »

You could say that C = D + E - F + G - H if you really wanted to.

But C is still C which is the net difference between A and B

But assuming D is the 40bn payment, it's still D regardless of E, F & G are. It's not conditional on anything.

If we have to take full FoM, we pay 40bn.
If we get no FoM, we pay 40bn.
If we go full WTO and refuse to interact with EU in any way, we pay 40bn.

Or do you somehow think otherwise?

Eric_the_half_a_bee

ilovehouses wrote: »

So is the divorce bill a standalone deal or dependent upon whether we like the trade deal we eventually agree?

Article 50 says there are two possibilities:

a) a single agreement which covers both issues
b) exit without an agreement

Herzlos

mrschaucer wrote: »

As far as I can see the BBC are totally ignoring this so far ...
https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-politics-spd-europe/german-spd-leader-seeks-united-states-of-europe-by-2025-idUSA5N1JY01W
and
https://www.ft.com/content/ec2a8982-db4a-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482
Schulz is making this a condition of future talks with Angela Merkel. Any country which doesn't want to sign up to the USE would automatically leave the eu.

Cool; Europe is pushing for closer integration and we're isolating ourselves further. The more converged the EU gets the harder it'll be for us to interact and we'll either get to accept a 2nd tier Europe with whoever is left, or join the USE.

And to think we could have veto'd this entirely.

tracey3596

Back up to post 2266 and read it again.
Just to make it easy for you, "Another U.K. official familiar with the text said that in addition there was an “explicit” reference that the offer is “conditional on an overall agreement which takes into account the framework for a future relationship and an early agreement on transition,” raising the prospect that it could all be withdrawn should the talks break down"
See that?
No deal or no transition = no 40 billion.
It really is clear enough.

tracey3596

Herzlos wrote: »

Cool; Europe is pushing for closer integration and we're isolating ourselves further. The more converged the EU gets the harder it'll be for us to interact and we'll either get to accept a 2nd tier Europe with whoever is left, or join the USE.

And to think we could have veto'd this entirely.

Not quite.
According to Schulz: "“This constitutional treaty must then be presented in all member states and those that do not agree would automatically leave the EU,” he said."
So those who don't submit to the federalist view of the EU must leave it. In other words it's looking like the UK will only be the first of potentially quite a few to leave.

Eric_the_half_a_bee

ilovehouses wrote: »

The UK and EU have agreed how the UK will fund existing commitments to the EU. It's a standalone deal as the citizens rights and Irish border deals are required to be...

This is the process Davis agreed on day one of the negotiations..

This is pure invention on your part. Davis has consistently said that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed- which is what Article 50 requires.