Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

buglawton

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

It isn't. Several other countries in the EU absorb more people than the UK.

However, even if it was, with unemployment at 40 year lows clearly the UK economy is absorbing all the labour from the EU it is getting and then some.

Why do you want to starve the UK economy of vitally needed young workers and create labour shortages?

I can't easily find stats but let's take UK vs Germany. The latter probably does have more migrant workers in it's much larger and sharply more productive economy then the UK. And look at what recent German sensitivity on immigration there has done: A large minority of extreme right-wing MPs as a result of the last German election means Germany has no valid govt.

Meanwhile what has similar sensitivity over immigration in the UK done? Created UKIP and Brexit, and this thread, is what.

mrginge

mayonnaise wrote: »

Thanks mrginge!

A. You calling the ability to do our own trade deals 'a major factor' doesn't make it one. It's a red herring. The average disaffected Brexit voter doesn't give a flying fig about the ability to do trade deals.

By the way, Eurozone economies seem to be perfectly capable of significantly ramping up trade with non-EU countries despite being 'shackled' to a Union that doesn't manage to conclude any trade deals (according to some on here ).
https://insights.abnamro.nl/en/2017/11/global-daily-euro-exports-to-brics-booming/
I imagine we'll end up with a 'non-divergence' or 'close alignment' scenario. The government seems to like these terms.

B. We'll probably end up with bit of tinkering around freedom of movement to keep the raving brexiteers in their box, akin to what DC tried to negotiate before the referendum i.e. no benefits for x years, no tax credits...etc...

Wow you’ve really got this covered mayo. I am almost certain that the ‘average disaffected brexit voter’ will look at a few scraps of FoM concessions that we couldn’t get two years ago and think, yes that’s well worth 40bn quid.

But then again, compared to your other idea of economic armageddon (aka continued growth forecasts) making them desperate to take any old crap just to get back in, it sounds like complete genius.

:rotfl:

tracey3596

gfplux wrote: »

Tracey, we are on different sides of the argument but why do you say "leave them to their own devices"

Surely even those in favour of Brexit know that walking away without a deal on -

Citizens rights
The financial settlement
The Irish border
No Trade deal
Plus the other hundreds of things that need agreeing from pet passports to isotopes for cancer treatment.

Will create a dreadful situation in Britain. Sorry for the word dreadful as I am trying not to over egg the result of "walking away" for Britain, its Industry and its Citizens.

I would love to know why you think it "will create a dreadful situation for Britain" given that over three quarters of the world is NOT in the EU - including the global top 3 economies by country - and that the EU share of the world's economy is shrinking. Before the UK has even left, which will push the EU's share significantly lower.
The rest of the world manages quite nicely.
Better in fact over the past thirty years than the EU has done and forecasts suggest this trend will accelerate.

tracey3596

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Who do you suspect is one and the same?

Like I said earlier, "Can they really not debate without insulting and baiting?"
It seems not which to me is a sign that they have no valid points to make regarding the topic.


Substitute "remainers" where "Frenchies" is and "Brexiter" for "Pimpernel" .

tracey3596

European Commission Vice President Valdis Dombrovskis has today announced a plan to help* countries join the Euro.
* Help - as in bend the rules.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/06/eu-unveils-plan-to-strengthen-unity-among-members.html

The trouble is that quite a few don't actually want the Euro.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-06/anti-euro-swing-on-eu-s-fringe-triggers-backlash-from-businesses

Beyond that, though, is the virulent isolationism and anti-immigrant sentiment that’s swept through parts of the EU's east. Two out of every 10 Czechs favor joining the euro, while only a third say being an EU member is a “good thing,’’ according to Eurobarometer surveys this year. That’s worse than how Britons feel about the bloc.

phillw

buglawton wrote: »

A large minority of extreme right-wing MPs as a result of the last German election means Germany has no valid govt.

Meanwhile what has similar sensitivity over immigration in the UK done? Created UKIP and Brexit, and this thread, is what.

It's created a very similar position in the UK. The only real difference is that the "euro sceptics" like jacob rees mog sounds more posh.

tracey3596

Yet another example of EU double standards here.
"December 5, 2017 (Population Research Institute) – The European Union (EU) has warned Poland not to pass any legislation banning abortion in cases where unborn children are living with severe congenital disabilities."

The European Parliament’s attempt to censure Poland for considering legislation to protect the lives of the unborn with disabilities represents an unprecedented attempt by the EU to intervene in the democratic process of a Member State. The motion further transgresses on the right for states to protect the inherent and fundamental right to life through law as guaranteed by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/eu-warns-poland-not-to-pass-pro-life-legislation

How then do the EU explain their inaction against Ireland, the EU country described as having the amongst the strictest laws on abortion in the EU and where a mother's life must basically be at risk before abortion is deemed acceptable?
https://www.euractiv.com/section/freedom-of-thought/opinion/irelands-abortion-restrictions-are-a-disgrace-wheres-the-eus-soft-power/

tracey3596

The EU's Taxlandia Game Is Propaganda at Its Finest

But if you really want to know why the European Union is a lost cause, just consider that the bureaucrats at the European Commission actually created an online game designed to brainwash students into supporting higher taxes.

https://fee.org/articles/the-eus-taxlandia-game-is-propaganda-at-its-finest/


Yes, another example of EU propaganda to go with that which exists in education across the EU.


In the certain knowledge that someone will say "biased opinion" to try and decry what I posted, I give you this from mediabiasfactcheck dot com.

Factual Reporting: HIGH

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foundation-for-economic-education/

tracey3596

Is this from Politico a sign of what is to come if a deal is reached?

The U.K. will pay no upfront Brexit divorce bill to the European Union but will instead continue to act “as if [it] remained a member state” by meeting its ongoing liabilities as and when they arise for decades to come, according to a draft text of a joint agreement with the EU.

Another U.K. official familiar with the text said that in addition there was an “explicit” reference that the offer is “conditional on an overall agreement which takes into account the framework for a future relationship and an early agreement on transition,” raising the prospect that it could all be withdrawn should the talks break down.

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-will-not-pay-lump-sum-brexit-bill-according-to-draft-eu-uk-brexit-agreement/

Strange isn't it how none of the remain back-slapping posse posted about this?
Too busy back-slapping and trying to insult others maybe.

buglawton

tracey3596 wrote: »

I would love to know why you think it "will create a dreadful situation for Britain" given that over three quarters of the world is NOT in the EU - including the global top 3 economies by country - and that the EU share of the world's economy is shrinking. Before the UK has even left, which will push the EU's share significantly lower.
The rest of the world manages quite nicely.
Better in fact over the past thirty years than the EU has done and forecasts suggest this trend will accelerate.

Yes, and makes me think that Brexiteers were thinking about direction of travel at the referendum while Remainers were thinking of the status quo.