Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Moby

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/05/we-cant-go-on-like-this-mood-of-resignation-in-eu-as-brexit-talks-stutter

One EU ambassador told the Guardian the failure to reach a deal on Northern Ireland was a microcosm of a wider problem. “At root the problem is that [May] seems incapable of making a decision and is afraid of her own shadow,” the source said.

“We cannot go on like this, with no idea what the UK wants. She just has to have the conversation with her own cabinet, and if that upsets someone, or someone resigns, so be it. She has to say what kind of trading relationship she is seeking. We cannot do it for her, and she cannot defer forever.”

...and it appears Mayhem doesn't seem to be communicating her stance that well with her Brexiteer hardliners. Just as I was saying to Jock above
:-

David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, said that any alignment 
between the north and south in Ireland would apply to the whole of the UK, which Leave supporters interpreted as Britain remaining yoked to the EU.

One Cabinet source said: “It seems that either Northern Ireland is splitting from the rest of the UK or we are headed for high alignment with the EU, which certainly hasn’t been agreed by Cabinet. The Prime Minister is playing a risky game.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/05/brexit-deal-chaos-theresa-may-warned-will-face-leadership-challenge/

buglawton

mayonnaise wrote: »

..who happened to be one of the main proponents of the Single Market.

At a time when the EU proposal was for an alliance of similarly developed countries.
I wonder what Maggie would have thought if half the communist bloc joining, with totally free migration, had been on the table at that time.

And let's also not forget
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/the-thatcher-rebate-uk-reimbursed-in-excess-of-e111-billion-by-eu-since-1985/

phillw

buglawton wrote: »

At a time when the EU proposal was for an alliance of similarly developed countries.
I wonder what Maggie would have thought if half the communist bloc joining, with totally free migration, had been on the table at that time.

I get the feeling that she would be quite happy about it.

I think she'd have much more to say about the british layabouts who aren't prepared to work, so there were unfilled jobs that the eastern europeans were prepared to travel so far to do

phillw

Rough_Justice wrote: »

It looks like NI's Jim Allister is spot-on so far.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/brexit-dublin-will-be-big-loser-if-it-overplays-hand-and-theres-no-eu-deal-tuvs-allister-36372035.html

Not really, they are losers either way. It's better for them to take down England as well, even if it means a slightly worse situation for themselves.

They are putting their principals before prosperity, which is a crucial brexit philosophy.

It's just a pity that the principals for leaving are crooked and wrong.

Arklight wrote: »

People who actually remember the War and were affected by it voted Remain for the most part.

It depends, there are plenty foaming mouth xenophobes who are still fighting the second world war in their heads. They are so consumed with hatred they haven't noticed they flipped sides.

wunferall wrote: »

Since we already have these mutually-recognised rules in place, don't try to make mountains out of molehills.

We must take back control so that our rules are no longer recognised.

Moby

ilovehouses wrote: »

What's the difference between regulatory convergence and regulatory alignment? To most probably not much but I'm sure a Sir Humphrey would be able to prove that one is subjugation to the EU and the other taking back control.

It's clearly a face saving exercise to sell an unpalatable Brexit to the Brexiteer extremists.

Herzlos

phillw wrote: »

It depends, there are plenty foaming mouth xenophobes who are still fighting the second world war in their heads. They are so consumed with hatred they haven't noticed they flipped sides.

I have to admit I've never seen any hints of that attitude from anyone who was of service age during WW2. Maybe they just don't talk about it.

I've seen plenty from people who were born 10 or 20 years afterwards, though.

Herzlos

Moby wrote: »

It's clearly a face saving exercise to sell an unpalatable Brexit to the Brexiteer extremists.

Exactly. That's why we keep talking about "access to" the single market or customs union. We're either in them or we're not.

buglawton

phillw wrote: »

I get the feeling that she would be quite happy about it.

I think she'd have much more to say about the british layabouts who aren't prepared to work, so there were unfilled jobs that the eastern europeans were prepared to travel so far to do

When it came to the UK getting a good deal for itself, Thatcher was the one who saw we contributed too much and got the famous annual rebate (£111 billion to date? Well, maybe).

Had Cameron gone to the EU with the same attitude as Thatcher over a better immigration deal for the UK (why should the UK be the main sponge to absorb Europe's unemployment?), chances are Brexit would never have happened. What an irony.

gfplux

The clock is ticking. Will Britain miss the deadline.
I see nothing that says it will. I did see a lot of goodwill on Monday from the EU side.

This from Politico this morning.
"BOXED IN: Theresa May remains trapped in London today as her team’s agonizing talks with the DUP continue. No. 10 confirmed May will be taking Prime Minister’s Questions as usual at noon, and officials told Playbook it is “unlikely” she will return to Brussels today to pick up where she left off on Monday afternoon. A promised phone call with DUP leader Arlene Foster never happened last night, and the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg reports the two sides are so far apart there is little prospect of Foster heading to Westminster today, either. Ominously, the Telegraph quotes DUP sources in Belfast who feel “radical work” is needed on the draft agreement taking “several days.” The PM promised Jean-Claude Juncker she would be back before the end of this week, and he already made clear he has other plans come Friday. Time, in other words, is running out."

Eric_the_half_a_bee

ilovehouses wrote: »

What's the difference between regulatory convergence and regulatory alignment? To most probably not much but I'm sure a Sir Humphrey would be able to prove that one is subjugation to the EU and the other taking back control.

It's absolute rubbish. Jonathan Powell was on R4 this morning explaining how clever civil servants are in negotiations, by seeking "constructive ambiguity" - phrases that are vague enough to mean one thing to one side, and a completely different thing to the other side. He boasted that this allows agreements to get signed in otherwise impossible situations. Then he admitted the approach is deeply flawed, because it simply delays an inevitable disagreement.

And this level of idiocy from one of the leading civil servants of the last 40 years.