Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Ballard

Rinoa wrote: »

House of Lord report:

So the upper house of the UK has unilaterally decided that we don’t have to pay. Nigel Farage agrees with them so it must be true.

Keep up the good work.

tracey3596

Ballard wrote: »

Some Brexiteers claim that we owe nothing at all with zero evidence of this. I suspect that far too many people take the nonsense spouted by the likes of Johnson, Gove and Farage as fact.

For the record, once again, I don’t know whether there is a legal obligation upon us to pay. I think that it is very likely that there is but I am not privy to the workings of the agreements that we’ve signed. I therefore won’t be posting anything that is speculation and claiming that it’s a hard fact. That would be utterly idiotic.

Read Article 50.
I will even make it easy and give you a link.
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html
Now, see if you can find anywhere in there saying that either party must pay the other. If you find such a statement, post it here for all to see.

*Note.*
No-one has yet been able to do this but still, I wish you luck.
What it does very clearly say is "the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union."
In effect this means that if they do not "negotiate and conclude an agreement" we would have very good grounds to pursue the EU for recompense for any loss arising from their failure so to do. I suspect it is much more likely that this is the reason for EU mutterings of agreement and is nothing at all do do with alleged offers of cash, despite media suggestions otherwise.

Moby

ilovehouses wrote: »

I'm surprised you're so happy. It's quite a climbdown from your position where we tell the EU to do one and stop buying any of their products.

The quoted figure is also only for commitments up to 2020 apparently....we have a lot more liabilities than that!

tracey3596

posh*spice wrote: »

I expect there will be a lot os abusive posts from remainers today?

Yup, reams and from all the usual suspects.

All this when there has been no announcement and in fact (admittedly not that it means much) official denials have been forthcoming from both sides.

REPORTS that the UK had agreed to settle the so-called Brexit divorce bill to the tune of up to £57 billion were being regarded as premature last night.
A newspaper made the claim but sources in Brussels warned that the divorce deal had not been finalised and there should not be too much optimism about talks moving on at the meeting of the EU’s leaders on December 14 and 15.

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15689474.EU_sources_deny_reports_that___57bn_Brexit_divorce_settlement_has_been_finalised/

UK government official says 'does not recognise' reported Brexit bill settlement

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-bill-denial/uk-government-official-says-does-not-recognise-reported-brexit-bill-settlement-idUKKBN1DS2I5

Still, the remainers have to have their fun.
After all, what else do they have left?

Herzlos

tracey3596 wrote: »

Read Article 50.
I will even make it easy and give you a link.
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html
Now, see if you can find anywhere in there saying that either party must pay the other. If you find such a statement, post it here for all to see.

*Note.*
No-one has yet been able to do this but still, I wish you luck.
What it does very clearly say is "the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union."
In effect this means that if they do not "negotiate and conclude an agreement" we would have very good grounds to pursue the EU for recompense for any loss arising from their failure so to do. I suspect it is much more likely that this is the reason for EU mutterings of agreement and is nothing at all do do with alleged offers of cash, despite media suggestions otherwise.

"carrying out arrangements for it's withdrawl" could quite easily include payments to cover existing liabilities.

System

tracey3596 wrote: »

Yup, reams and from all the usual suspects.

Where? Here?

setmefree2

ukcarper wrote: »

I’m not saying it couldn’t have been handled better but it was always going to be difficult and without caving in completely I’m not sure anybody else could have done any better.

Certainly not Labour.

setmefree2

Rinoa wrote: »

Just find me one 'Project Fear' quote (and they spouted everything they could think of) where they said we'd owe the EU £50Bn on leaving.

You can't, because even they didn't think we did.

I have always tried to be fair haven't I?

The Remainers always said and argued that the Brexit bill would be between £50 and £60 billion.

The argument went like this..

Brexiter : We will save £350 million per week

Remainer : But it will cost us £50 to £60 billion to leave.

Ballard

tracey3596 wrote: »

Read Article 50.
I will even make it easy and give you a link.
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html
Now, see if you can find anywhere in there saying that either party must pay the other. If you find such a statement, post it here for all to see.

*Note.*
No-one has yet been able to do this but still, I wish you luck.
What it does very clearly say is "the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union."
In effect this means that if they do not "negotiate and conclude an agreement" we would have very good grounds to pursue the EU for recompense for any loss arising from their failure so to do. I suspect it is much more likely that this is the reason for EU mutterings of agreement and is nothing at all do do with alleged offers of cash, despite media suggestions otherwise.

As I see it the bill has nothing to do with article 50. It is related to separate agreements which the UK have signed in the past and have committed to fund various projects. It is likely to be portrayed as an exit fee but it seems clear to me that it’s altogether seperate.

Thanks for posting the link anyway but I’m currently on holiday in South America and don’t have the inclination to read it. Neither have I been following events as closely as I would have had I Ben back home.

setmefree2

Irish commissioner raises hopes of Brexit border breakthrough

The EU27 is optimistic of striking an agreement with the UK over the Northern Irish border after the British government has bowed to demands over its Brexit bill, Ireland’s commissioner to Brussels has said. Phil Hogan, EU commissioner for agriculture, said there was likely to be “movement” in the impasse between the two sides over how to deal with the border in the coming days. Theresa May is due to meet Jean-Claude Juncker next Monday to discuss her government’s stance on the first phase of Brexit talks.

In the same way we have seen movement in the last 24 hours on the financial settlement, I expect we will see movement in this regard [on the border] in the next few days as well”, said Mr Hogan.

https://www.ft.com/content/8b342a14-c848-3ad7-872a-1219dc896162