Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

mayonnaise

ukcarper wrote: »

I’m not saying it couldn’t have been handled better but it was always going to be difficult and without caving in completely I’m not sure anybody else could have done any better.

It could have been handled better if we had negotiated like grown-ups.
Acknowledging there were some serious liabilities to be paid for from day 1 of the negotiation process would have been a start.
Instead of that infantile "we owe them nothing" "they should be paying us" "go whistle" charade we've witnessed.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

mayonnaise wrote: »

You still don't get it, do you?
The £50bn is to cover liabilities, future spending commitments we've signed up to, pensions, etc....

Quite.

The £50bn exit fee is to cover what we owe.

And we can now move on to discussing any of the options the EU has clearly laid out for our future relationship.

1. EEA/EFTA - The EU are happy to give us full and unrestricted access to the single market via these entities - the current UK doesn't want to retain this access - the UK opposition does.

2. A Canada style trade deal - much worse access than we have today - pretty damaging for the UK economy.

3. The transitional deal - where we effectively stay in the Single Market/Customs Union for a period of time while negotiating the above.

All of the above subject to the Ireland question and citizens rights being agreed however.

Rinoa

mayonnaise wrote: »

You still don't get it, do you?
The £50bn is to cover liabilities, future spending commitments we've signed up to, pensions, etc...
It's not a fee to buy a free trade agreement.

It's ransom money. Pure and simple.

mrginge

Filo25 wrote: »

I agree that I don't think the outcome would have been much different in terms of finances however the negotiations had been handled, maybe there could have been less jingoistic nonsense along the way though.

Of course we are all speaking as if a deal has been settled when there is still the NI border issue to resolve, there the government has undoubtedly made things a lot tougher through an utterly incompetent election campaign leaving them dependant on votes from the DUP, thus removing some of their flexibility to negotiate over some kind of possible special status for NI.

Hopefully some sort of fudge can be found that resolves that issue.

Regardless of the outcome of the election there was never going to be any special status for one region of the uk. That was made perfectly clear months ago.

System

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Quite.

3. The transitional deal - where we effectively stay in the Single Market/Customs Union for a period of time while negotiating the above.

This will be next, it'll take years to unpick everything so we can actually leave.

What are we saying? Another €20bn?

mrginge

mayonnaise wrote: »

It could have been handled better if we had negotiated like grown-ups.
Acknowledging there were some serious liabilities to be paid for from day 1 of the negotiation process would have been a start.
Instead of that infantile "we owe them nothing" "they should be paying us" "go whistle" charade we've witnessed.

Ah the maestro negotiator speaks.

If only May had stuck 40bn on the table in June the EU would have signed on the dotted line straight away.

Yeah right mayo.

Herzlos

Rinoa wrote: »

It's ransom money. Pure and simple.

How do you come to that conclusion?

tracey3596

mayonnaise wrote: »

You still don't get it, do you?
The £50bn is to cover liabilities, future spending commitments we've signed up to, pensions, etc...
It's not a fee to buy a free trade agreement.

No, it is you that still don't get it. Negotiations are not completed and no final agreement has been reached.

For all you, I or anybody else knows this (whatever "this" is since we don't know for sure, do we?) may well just be the appearance of further compromise from the UK purely in order to see how the EU propose to move on with negotiations on trade etc. etc.
You can describe what you think this alleged sum is for until the cows come home but until a deal is done you're just blowing in the wind.

As the saying goes, "it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings" and the UK media's interpretation of what they think is far from being that song or that proverbial lady.

Filo25

mrginge wrote: »

Regardless of the outcome of the election there was never going to be any special status for one region of the uk. That was made perfectly clear months ago.

Lots of things have been made perfectly clear by members of this government which subsequently proved to be complete rubbish.

Rinoa

Herzlos wrote: »

How do you come to that conclusion?

We had no legal obligation to pay it. If we had left without wanting a trade deal we certainly wouldn't have paid it.