Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Moby

Filo25 wrote: »

Well sometimes they do, until Momentum instructs its members not to vote for a debate on Brexit at Conference, because it might be a bit inconvenient for the leadership.

Corbyn certainly isn't in line with many Labour members I know on Brexit, and currently Labour policy on the single market contains almost as much ambiguous wording and wishful thinking as the Tories

Most Labour members want to stay in the single market and customs union. The leadership are saying we have to respect the referendum result however and that means we can't stay in the single market so .....we are told the policy is to be as close to the single market as its possible to be without being in it and the customs union will have to be 'a customs union' not 'the' customs union.

Arklight

Filo25 wrote: »

Corbyn's a lifelong Eurosceptic so not a huge issue for him to respect the result of the referendum!

I fully agree that it is primarily a Tory issue, but let's not make out Labour are much more united, they just have the luxury of hiding some of the disunity by just talking in vague terms in opposition.

The country is divided by Brexit and it will be for a generation or more now, but Labour don't have the extremes of division that the Tories do.

Most Labour voters will swallow a soft Brexit although it isn't really what they want Leave or Remain, not sure the Tory Right will.

Filo25

Moby wrote: »

Most Labour members want to stay in the single market and customs union. The leadership are saying we have to respect the referendum result however and that means we can't stay in the single market so .....we are told the policy is to be as close to the single market as its possible to be without being in it and the customs union will have to be 'a customs union' not 'the' customs union.

You must admit it sounds pretty meaningless when it is put like that, the EU have been pretty clear thus far, the UK should pick a model it wants (both in terms of rights and obligations) and we go from there.

Because of the Labour's issue on the Freedom of Movement issue, Labour is also realistically looking at a Canada FTA style agreement as the closest relationaship it could manage. EEA is off the table due to Freedom of Movement, so it is a bit meaningless to talk about single market access (apart from the usual politicians trick of making people think access is the same as membership)

Filo25

Arklight wrote: »

The country is divided by Brexit and it will be for a generation or more now, but Labour don't have the extremes of division that the Tories do.

Most Labour voters will swallow a soft Brexit although it isn't really what they want Leave or Remain, not sure the Tory Right will.

What do you mean by a soft Brexit?

EEA membership would scare a lot of MPs in vulnerable Northern seats to death because of freedom of movement and a Canada style FTE deal wouldn't be considered soft by a lot of Labour voters and members I know.

kabayiri

Filo25 wrote: »

What do you mean by a soft Brexit?

EEA membership would scare a lot of MPs in vulnerable Northern seats to death because of freedom of movement and a Canada style FTE deal wouldn't be considered soft by a lot of Labour voters and members I know.

You're going to upset someone, whichever way you cut this.

The usual tactic for supporting Northern MPs is to throw money at the depressed regions. I'm sure Mr Corbyn would relish the opportunity to spend other people's money on a cause which demonstrates his socialist credentials.

(once he works out where the North actually is, of course)

Rinoa

gfplux wrote: »

Brexiters have spent +40 years saying Germany and France call the shots.
Now you say that FRANCE on its own can not influence the EU.

Frankly that is a sad reflection of how insulated from what goes on in Europe let alone the rest of the world you Brexiters are.

When Theresa May reneged on all her promises with her new Brexit plan she knew she had to get approval from someone in the EU.

She could have met Juncker, or maybe Tusk, or any one of 27 heads of state. But she only met with one, Angela Merkel.

You may as well be living under the Third Reich.

Herzlos

Remember that summit we'd insisted was hosted in London about the Balkans joining the EU?

Well that went ahead yesterday, and the Foreign Secretary was due to make a speech. But didn't because he'd just resigned. I wonder if he even remembered about it?


Are these guys trying to embarrass us?


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-resigns-western-balkan-summit-no-show-london-brexit-theresa-may-david-davis-a8438946.html

kabayiri

Rinoa wrote: »

...
She could have met Juncker, or maybe Tusk, or any one of 27 heads of state. But she only met with one, Angela Merkel.
...

Maybe it's like the White Rhino though, with Merkel.

You wan't to see it before it becomes extinct.

I'd rather see a Merkel in it's natural habitat. Such a shame I don't like bunkers.

Moby

Rinoa wrote: »

When Theresa May reneged on all her promises with her new Brexit plan she knew she had to get approval from someone in the EU.

She could have met Juncker, or maybe Tusk, or any one of 27 heads of state. But she only met with one, Angela Merkel.

You may as well be living under the Third Reich.

I mean this is the nub of the problem.....why go there? These people still think it's 1945 and haven't moved on!

phillw

LHW99 wrote: »

But wrong and not democracy that the whole country had a chance to vote on Brexit and the majority of those who did vote chose to leave?

Only by a small percentage & not all of the people who voted to leave were that committed to leaving, they just thought it sounded nice giving the NHS the £350 million and keeping our existing trading relationship with the EU exactly the same because that is what they were promised.

Rinoa wrote: »

When Theresa May reneged on all her promises with her new Brexit plan she knew she had to get approval from someone in the EU.

She could have met Juncker, or maybe Tusk, or any one of 27 heads of state. But she only met with one, Angela Merkel.

You may as well be living under the Third Reich.

Please explain how Theresa May and Angela Merkel talking is equivalent to Nazi Germany. You might want to start with "I'm not xenophobic, but....." before you start saying something xenophobic in future. That's what all the leavers were told to do.

Filo25 wrote: »

Corbyn's a lifelong Eurosceptic so not a huge issue for him to respect the result of the referendum!

There is a difference between being eurosceptic and voting leave. If Corbyn were in power right now then I'm not so sure whether he'd respect it any more than Theresa May. Leaving the EU is disastrous, you need to be a "special" kind of MP to know what effect it would have & still do it.

Filo25 wrote: »

I fully agree that it is primarily a Tory issue, but let's not make out Labour are much more united, they just have the luxury of hiding some of the disunity by just talking in vague terms in opposition.

That is the advantage of being in opposition, it makes up for not being able to do the things you want. The Conservatives did the same during the Labour government.