Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

gfplux

cogito wrote: »

Article 50.2 requires the EU to negotiate an agreement with the departing country. In what sense are they negotiating? They are being neither sensible nor serious.

They have pocketed every concession that we have made and offered nothing in return.

Thanks to Zero.

It appears to be Brexiteer problem not to understand the nature of negotiation. If you can achieve your desired outcome by not conceding or offering anything, that’s really good negotiation.

Just now, looking at it objectively, the EU have negotiated really well, and the U.K. has negotiated really, really badly.

Herzlos

Another fake news source blaming brexit. Growth behind Italy? Ouch.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/06/21/the-economy-has-slowed-to-a-standstill-largely-because-of-brexit

gfplux

I am surprised and then again not, that after two years of the UK wasting the time of Barnier and the EU there is not a groundswell of opinion from the Citizens of the EU27 to just kick Britain out.
I believe it is a combination of the fondness Britain is thought of and the typical apathy of voters of all the EU28.
As it is the EU can not just kick Britain out as they follow the rules which still after two years the British Government and Brexit voters have difficulty understanding.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

Another fake news source blaming brexit. Growth behind Italy? Ouch.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/06/21/the-economy-has-slowed-to-a-standstill-largely-because-of-brexit

You need to keep up.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44655658

kabayiri

gfplux wrote: »

I am surprised and then again not, that after two years of the UK wasting the time of Barnier and the EU there is not a groundswell of opinion from the Citizens of the EU27 to just kick Britain out.
...

Don't you think the likes of Barnier would just prefer to kick Italy out, and not have to deal with this troublesome left-right political government?

Obviously, we think Brexit is the biggest topic in town right now, but for the EU is it really?

I still think the migrant crisis could derail harmony within the group; the Euro is still not without problems; and the rise of right of centre populism across the EU27 is clear for all to see,

If you're a political activist keen on change, I'd say things are looking up.

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

You seem to be missing the point here Graham.

Not missing the point.

Just a completely different opinion.

I have read your points, but don't agree with a single one of them - they also contradict every other argument you make in other scenarios.

It's clear someone people want brexit to be as bad as possible - simply to state "I told you so". It's been eveident since the vote. So anything that's stated or done will be "bad".

Any company threatening to leave the UK becomes the worlds greatest company. But any company investing becomes suspect, as if they are playing some kind of dirty game to increase profits.

Those on the left who bemoan the level of profits of the banks suddently find themselves stating the banks and the profits must stay. Those bemoaning the directors wgaes and bonuses in one thread suddenly find themselves stating "but these people and their tax will leave" in another breath.

One thing I've noticed, not with all on the remain side, not by a long shot - but certainly some on this board - they disagree with the profits, they disagree with low wages, they disagree with directors making huge sums off their workers.

But all of a sudden, these companies are companies to look up to, and the companies like Wetherspoons, who share profits and invest directly int he UK are suddenly the idiotic companies working on a racist framework.

In other words - every argument is now out of the window when it comes to brexit. At least he majority on the leave side continues to have the same argument before the vote, and after the vote, providing a level of consistency.

buglawton

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Which is why May's 'red lines' will shortly evaporate as reality sets in.

Exactly.

There can be no 'Europe a la carte'.

No 'have cake and eat it'.

This was made abundantly clear in advance of the referendum.

The EU are being consistent and responsible - they will not sacrifice the integrity of the single market for an ungrateful UK.

If we want the benefits of frictionless trade we must follow the rules - same as anyone else - anything else would be hugely unfair to the other participants.

So we should all stop worrying and and learn to love the de facto Remain status quo.

It’s been heading this way for a long time now: Call it the Norway, Swiss, Turkish solution or what you will, do we effectively accept an EU dictatorship or not? After all, I’m reliably informed it’s what’s best for us.

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

Don't you think the likes of Barnier would just prefer to kick Italy out, and not have to deal with this troublesome left-right political government?

Obviously, we think Brexit is the biggest topic in town right now, but for the EU is it really?

I still think the migrant crisis could derail harmony within the group; the Euro is still not without problems; and the rise of right of centre populism across the EU27 is clear for all to see,

If you're a political activist keen on change, I'd say things are looking up.

Do you remember the Greek financial crisis? There was quite a groundswell of opinion to throw Greece out. It did not happen and after many years many have forgotten how they felt about Greece then and now Greece is slowly getting out of the financial hole.

Certainly immigration is a very big topic and as you say Brexit is a smaller problem (of many)
If we look at the USA some forget what it stands for, The United States of America. They have had an immigrant problem for decades and still today are looking for solutions and even new solutions.
The EU is young in comparison but even a country as large and as old as the USA does not have solutions in place.
Not living in America I have no idea how immigration effects different States in different ways. We know there are hot spots and flash points and there are votes to be had by being tough on immigrants.

We must except the EU is more fragile due to its youth and immigration is a very big problem. As we have seen in the U.K. the dislike of foreigners is just below the surface but that was why the EU was founded and how it deals with the present crisis is important,

vivatifosi

I understand the EU standing firm on the Four Freedoms as those are the guiding principles. But why is there no compromise on Galileo? Ludicrous inflexible point scoring. And I say that as someone who voted remain.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

Don't you think the likes of Barnier would just prefer to kick Italy out, and not have to deal with this troublesome left-right political government?

Barnier & Co are puppets. Ultimately they have no powers of decision.