Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

wunferall

Ballard wrote: »

That’s one way of looking at it. Another is to say that he’s a man who lies and bullies his was through his presidency.

Unlike the European Council President Tusk with his "the UK's future lies in Dublin's hands" comment when we ALL know it's nothing more than an attempted EU stick. Or how about his liking for ultimatums regarding Brexit?

Unlike the European Commission President, JC Juncker with so many lies it's difficult to know just where to start. No wonder he himself said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie".

Spain's Rajoy, ousted because of lies?
Merkel, with lies re: Greek bailouts, migration etc. surely not helping her towards her now-weakened position.

And yet you think Trump unique amongst presidents for what you consider as "lying and bullying"?
:rotfl:

wunferall

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Britain has a long and proud history of abject failure with major technology projects, delivering them badly, late and massively over budget.

In the diminished and poorer Brexit Britain we have neither the capacity nor are we able to afford building a global satellite network to duplicate the one we stuffed up our membership of...

Britain also has a long and proud history of innovation in major technology projects going back centuries with examples including the steam engine, TV and even the WWW.

Not every new idea gets it right the first time, or in fact ever.
Your contributions may frequently count as examples testifying to that.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Herzlos wrote: »

Please remember that next time the remainers are being blamed for not being patriotic enough or sabotaging brexit.

As if some jingoistic flag waving would help - Brexit was never going to be anything other than an unholy mess - and it's Brexiteers that are the ministers in all the key government positions.

At least the EU are being sensible, serious and organised about trying to find a solution.

While our own shameful government bickers and squabbles and argues with itself - and persists in looking for magical unicorn solutions that are impossible as the clock runs down and the country risks disaster.

Brexit is a national humiliation. No wonder a clear majority now think it's a mistake.

Rinoa

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

As if some jingoistic flag waving would help - Brexit was never going to be anything other than an unholy mess - and it's Brexiteers that are the ministers in all the key government positions.

What?

PM and Chancellor both voted remain.

cogito

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

As if some jingoistic flag waving would help - Brexit was never going to be anything other than an unholy mess - and it's Brexiteers that are the ministers in all the key government positions.

At least the EU are being sensible, serious and organised about trying to find a solution.

While our own shameful government bickers and squabbles and argues with itself - and persists in looking for magical unicorn solutions that are impossible as the clock runs down and the country risks disaster.

Brexit is a national humiliation. No wonder a clear majority now think it's a mistake.

Article 50.2 requires the EU to negotiate an agreement with the departing country. In what sense are they negotiating? They are being neither sensible nor serious.

They have pocketed every concession that we have made and offered nothing in return.

Zero_Gravitas

cogito wrote: »

Article 50.2 requires the EU to negotiate an agreement with the departing country. In what sense are they negotiating? They are being neither sensible nor serious.

They have pocketed every concession that we have made and offered nothing in return.

It appears to be Brexiteer problem not to understand the nature of negotiation. If you can achieve your desired outcome by not conceding or offering anything, that’s really good negotiation.

Just now, looking at it objectively, the EU have negotiated really well, and the U.K. has negotiated really, really badly.

Thrugelmir

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

If you can achieve your desired outcome by not conceding or offering anything, that’s really good negotiation.

Do you seriously believe that the "EU" wants a hard Brexit. Brussels might wish to punish the UK. Once reality sinks in across Europe after the event. There'll be major rumblings of discontent. Enough disagreement on major issues as it is.

Zero_Gravitas

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that the "EU" wants a hard Brexit. Brussels might wish to punish the UK. Once reality sinks in across Europe after the event. There'll be major rumblings of discontent. Enough disagreement on major issues as it is.

That’s the other thing about negotiation: it’s not mandatory to tell the other side what your desired outcome is at any point - even after the negotiation is over...

I have no idea what the EU’s desired outcome is - all we can see at the moment is that as the negotiation progresses the EU don’t find it necessary to make any significant concessions or offers to achieve that outcome. This may change of course - but that’s where we are at the moment, and the EU has the upper hand.

Herzlos

There's this bizarre notion from brexiteers that negotiations mean meeting in the middle and concessions on both sides. That may be the case where both parties have as much at stake.

This has been more like offering someone £500 for a house on the market for £500,000 and complaining they aren't counter offering £250,000.

What have we actually conceded on that wasn't already contractual? What has the EU had to concede on?

Herzlos

Huge surge in brits applying for EU nationality. I wonder if these are the wealth producers we're expecting to find a way to make a success of Brexit, or rich brexiteers trying to isolate themselves from the damage they'll profit from?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44629193