Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Thrugelmir

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

And the great irony is that currently our entire brexit strategy (using the term very loosely) is nothing to do with what is best for the U.K. and is based purely on the self interest of a Conservative Party trying to stop itself from imploding.

Some would say it's grown ups having a serious debate. Easy to stand on the side lines and snipe. What's Corbyn's contribution...... attempt to call another General Election. Understandable why he languished on the back benches for many many years. The Conservative party is dominating the debate. As there's a lack of expertise on the front benches of the opposition parties.

cogito

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The EU is being entirely rational and sensible here - we voted to leave and become a third country - so we deserve no special preferential access to any EU projects including Galileo.

The UK has shown itself to be an untrustworthy and unreliable partner.

So it's fairly preposterous to expect the EU to now allow us to cherry pick the good bits of EU membership while accepting none of the responsibilities.

We already have full access to the USA GPS system so not having access to a system which is already far from ready and depends to a large extent on UK capabilities doesn't appear to be a major problem anyway. If the EU want to shoot themselves in the foot, they are welcome to do so.

buglawton

kabayiri wrote: »

We've not seen political self interest tested to anything like this level in decades.

It's not just Tories. Apparently, Unite now support a second referendum, but nobody seems clear on what the question will be.

Was it only the LibDems who were honest during the GE?, and look what happened to their share of the vote.

The curious thing is, if the Libdems had held the political balance like last time, the referendum would never have happened, or at least not until after another 5 years of escalating warnings to the EU that if it does not change the UK membership deal radically, 'this' will happen.

The
Cameron negotiation fail > referendum gamble > simple in/out ultimatum referendum > fail > Cameron out > May's snap election gamble > fail
fiascos then all happened in remarkably short succession. Since that time then only way for the Tories has been down. They don't deserve to be re-elected for another 50 years but regrettably the alternatives are just as bad.

Zero_Gravitas

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Some would say it's grown ups having a serious debate. Easy to stand on the side lines and snipe. What's Corbyn's contribution...... attempt to call another General Election. Understandable why he languished on the back benches for many many years. The Conservative party is dominating the debate. As there's a lack of expertise on the front benches of the opposition parties.

Grown ups having a serious debate? Boris saying “f**k business” and Gove tearing up documents he doesn’t like? That’s not grown up - it’s petulant posturing because they’re not getting their own way.

I agree the opposition have been absolutely useless, but please don’t try and pretend that the Conservatives are doing anything but try and save themselves. Boris might as well have said “f**k the U.K.”

kabayiri

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

Grown ups having a serious debate? Boris saying “f**k business” and Gove tearing up documents he doesn’t like? That’s not grown up - it’s petulant posturing because they’re not getting their own way.

I agree the opposition have been absolutely useless, but please don’t try and pretend that the Conservatives are doing anything but try and save themselves. Boris might as well have said “f**k the U.K.”

What works though?

If you look stateside you see Trump get away with a lot of things. Heartland voters forgive him because they believe he is on their side.

Boris is a blatant populist too. Gove is interesting. He is actually pretty smart, and would know how his gesture would be reported.

Herzlos

What should team UK be doing then? What should they be asking for, which what concessions, and how will it work?

As far as I've seen went spent 2 years delaying proposals that have already been rejected. The cynic in me thinks this is so they can stay in the EU at the last minute and blame it on the EU. The Tories will survive at the cost of hugely increased resentment towards the EU because of Westminster failings.

Herzlos

Trump has the lowest approval rating for a long time, less and less people are letting him away with stuff. Once his grass roots realise how they've been lied to, he'll have no support left.

Though I have to admit that people do still believe him despite all of the evidence. Trump and Boris.

Graham_Devon

Herzlos wrote: »

Trump has the lowest approval rating for a long time, less and less people are letting him away with stuff. Once his grass roots realise how they've been lied to, he'll have no support left.

Though I have to admit that people do still believe him despite all of the evidence. Trump and Boris.

Which is, of course, completely untrue...but don't let that stop you!

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

Herzlos

How so? Your own link shows that you need to back to Truman in '53 to get a lower approval rating than Trump. That's certainly a while.

Or do you want to claim he's popular?

Herzlos

Sorry, Ford and Clinton dipped below Trump briefly and then recovered.