Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

buglawton

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Barnier & Co are puppets. Ultimately they have no powers of decision.

True but when you see them thrust their chests out on Twitter and the media to reject any new UK proposal, seemingly minutes after it's made, they seem to have a different image of themselves.

It really is time for the UK to call some bluffs.

vivatifosi

gfplux wrote: »

I am surprised and then again not, that after two years of the UK wasting the time of Barnier and the EU there is not a groundswell of opinion from the Citizens of the EU27 to just kick Britain out.
I believe it is a combination of the fondness Britain is thought of and the typical apathy of voters of all the EU28.
As it is the EU can not just kick Britain out as they follow the rules which still after two years the British Government and Brexit voters have difficulty understanding.

Why would they just kick Britain out? The EU27 sells more goods to the UK than vice versa, and there's scope to get a payment for access from the UK. Why would they just give that up? We may be a PITA short term, but long term a deal makes sense.

Zero_Gravitas

kabayiri wrote: »

It's because people misunderstand Brexit.

It was for many a vote on self interest, not any notion of ideal.

If you felt the EU deal worked for you, you ticked Remain. If you felt things were worsening, you opted for change.

Hedging bets is just more evidence of self interest.

Cameron made the mistake of thinking we were more united than we actually are.

And the great irony is that currently our entire brexit strategy (using the term very loosely) is nothing to do with what is best for the U.K. and is based purely on the self interest of a Conservative Party trying to stop itself from imploding.

kabayiri

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

And the great irony is that currently our entire brexit strategy (using the term very loosely) is nothing to do with what is best for the U.K. and is based purely on the self interest of a Conservative Party trying to stop itself from imploding.

We've not seen political self interest tested to anything like this level in decades.

It's not just Tories. Apparently, Unite now support a second referendum, but nobody seems clear on what the question will be.

Was it only the LibDems who were honest during the GE?, and look what happened to their share of the vote.

vivatifosi

There is a great opinion piece on the parties imploding, written by Adam Boulton, below. It's called 'British politics is having a nervous breakdown'

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/sky-views-british-politics-is-having-a-nervous-breakdown-11421515?__twitter_impression=true

Zero_Gravitas

kabayiri wrote: »

We've not seen political self interest tested to anything like this level in decades.

It's not just Tories. Apparently, Unite now support a second referendum, but nobody seems clear on what the question will be.

Was it only the LibDems who were honest during the GE?, and look what happened to their share of the vote.

Agreed. And at a time when any decent opposition would be running rings around the government, the Labour Party look just as incompetent as the Conservatives.

Make you wonder if a European Superstate might not be such a bad idea after all... (and for the absolute avoidance of doubt, that is a tongue-in-cheek comment).

buglawton

Herzlos wrote: »

Huge surge in brits applying for EU nationality. I wonder if these are the wealth producers we're expecting to find a way to make a success of Brexit, or rich brexiteers trying to isolate themselves from the damage they'll profit from?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44629193

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/14/sharp-rise-in-number-of-eu-nationals-applying-for-uk-citizenship

Touche

kabayiri

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

Agreed. And at a time when any decent opposition would be running rings around the government, the Labour Party look just as incompetent as the Conservatives.
...

Corbyn tries to sound like a throwback Labour traditionalist, but his forebears understood their traditional voting base in the regional/Northern heartlands. Corbyn doesn't

I wonder if we will actually see regional political parties emerge. The SNP had political success for a while with their "we are forgotten by Westminster" line.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

vivatifosi wrote: »

But why is there no compromise on Galileo? .

The EU is being entirely rational and sensible here - we voted to leave and become a third country - so we deserve no special preferential access to any EU projects including Galileo.

The UK has shown itself to be an untrustworthy and unreliable partner.

So it's fairly preposterous to expect the EU to now allow us to cherry pick the good bits of EU membership while accepting none of the responsibilities.

vivatifosi

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The EU is being entirely rational and sensible here - we voted to leave and become a third country - so we deserve no special preferential access to any EU projects including Galileo.

The UK has shown itself to be an untrustworthy and unreliable partner.

So it's fairly preposterous to expect the EU to now allow us to cherry pick the good bits of EU membership while accepting none of the responsibilities.

How has it proven itself to be an unreliable partner? By investing a billion euros in it and being frozen out?

Things like this should be easy negotiating points. On both sides. This, EHIC, Erasmus... easy wins and little or no impact on the Four Pillars.

It smacks of being difficult for the sake of it.