Gladstones Letter Before Claim

Rheebs25_2

I have managed to find this response on post #2


Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter of x.

When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time. Extraordinarily, I was told (in blunt terms) by [name of debt collectors] that no such evidence would be provided "until this gets to court" [try and reproduce the exact words used].


You have now sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence which I requested as long ago as [date - if you don't know exact date, put the month and year]. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.


This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.


Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction. Your client cannot simply refuse to provide the relevant information "until this gets to court" [or whatever they said].

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully




I have had a LBC confirming an extraordinary amount of money for parking in a car park. My LBC does not state why the amount has increased etc.


Is this response something I can use to send to Gladstones LBC? Or do I need to tweak it slightly?





thanks in advance for any help given :):):):)

Rheebs25_2

Umkomaas wrote: »

That is not the focus of your LBC response. You are denying that any debt exists, or that you owe their client anything and that you will vigorously defend any court case.

The copy and paste you've posted above is an initial appeal - it is not a response to a LBC. There is a specific section of the sticky devoted to responses to a LBA/LBC/LBCCC in post #2. You don't seem to be checking post #2.

Each post made on a thread has a number in the top r/h corner. In this thread, your prior post was #18, this post of mine will be #19. Each number has a hashtag in front of it.

So you now need to go to the sticky and scroll well down the thread to #2 (each post in the sticky is very long and I don't think you've scrolled down far enough to find #2 because what you copied and pasted above came from post #1).

Once you find #2, continue to scroll well down that to find the bit about LBCs etc.

I have found this and tweaked it a little.


Does is sound okay to send and sounds relevant?




Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter of the Letter Before Claim,

When your client's debt collectors started contacting me, I had sent a letter and asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time with the appropriate signage of the parking restriction within the photograph. I did not hear anything back in writing from the debt collectors DRP from their last correspondence in December 2016.

You have now sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient details of the claim, why the amount has increased and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence which I requested as long ago as December 2016/January 2017.


This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.


Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed clearly
8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully
?????????

Coupon-mad

I think I would start more forcefully, and never thank them for a court threat!:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your communication that you have misleadingly described as a Letter Before Claim, yet you have once again omitted the documents, photographs, copy of the contract and other information that I am entitled to receive, under your duty to fulfil the overriding objective in resolving disputes outside of the court process.

The_Deep

Why not add that after 1st October they will also have to supply a lot more.


https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil

Quentin

The_Deep wrote: »

Why not add that after 1st October they will also have to supply xxxxx?


That should give them pause for thought.

They look to be aware - LBC dated 12/9/17!

safarmuk

Why not add that after 1st October they will also have to supply xxxxx?


That should give them pause for thought.
Originally posted by The Deep
”They look to be aware - LBC dated 12/9/17!

Yep, current advice is to try and play letter ping pong to prevent a compliant LBC coming out prior to 1st October if you can ... after that date the sand has shifted and the person sitting in the box seat has changed.

Rheebs25_2

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I think I would start more forcefully, and never thank them for a court threat!:

thank you so much, I never really thought about that tbh lol I have taken the thank you off now


I need to send this asap as the deadline for 14 days I believe is sometime next week. The LBC letter is dated 12th Sept but I didn't receive it till 16th Sept. So I don't think I can hold off sending it till after the 1st Oct.

Rheebs25_2

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I think I would start more forcefully, and never thank them for a court threat!:

also.


how do I sign it?


do I put my name or do I just put Keeper of the car /?

Rheebs25_2

also...


would I send the letter to Gladstones Solicitors seeing as thought the ref starts with a 1 and also it says for me to pay them not DRP.

KeithP

Rheebs25 wrote: »

also.


how do I sign it?


do I put my name or do I just put Keeper of the car /?

They know who you are. Don't be shy.