Gladstones Letter Before Claim

Rheebs25_2

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Try to engage them in some letters/emails first to head them off this month, to delay the claim until after 1st October:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73134545#Comment_73134545

After that date they'll find their robo-claims much harder. So engage them this month, in requests for photos and evidence, all sorts, reply to everything they send, asking something else, asking what the reason for the charge was and how the sum is calculated, seeing as it appears to bear no relation to any parking tariff.

Ask for copies of all letters sent, and photos of the signs. Keep Gladstones busy and reply again and again.

Complain to your MP about them as well, and ask the MP to support the Bill going through Parliament in 2018:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73128070#Comment_73128070

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73048725#Comment_73048725

Then come back, fired up, when you get your claim form from Gladstones.

Hello Coupon-mad,


I really appreciate all the help you give everyone when they receive these PCN's from private firms.


I have taken a look at a recent thread that someone had done in regards to Gladstones when they sent a response to an LBC. I have been trying to reword this so it relates more to UK Car Park Management. As I have recently found out that due to the law, the photo of the car must have a picture of the signage for the parking restriction, (I will attempt to in put the link for this picture as soon as I am able for the parking sign restriction), however with regards to my PCN it just showed my car front and back and that is it.


The response letter that I found is very good is this:




Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to you as owner of the vehicle registration number: ********* in regards to a parking ticket issued on 01.09.2016 (PCN No: *******) from UK Car Park Management.

I am not aware of any reason why this ticket should be had been issued.


The premise of ticketing a vehicle for not displaying a permit has the sole purpose of deterring people from parking within a space my vehicle is legally permitted to park in; i.e. SIP’s primary function is to monitor illegal car parking. There is a significant legal issue, despite what SIP’s signs in the car park may say, regarding ticketing a car which is permitted to park in this space. The deeds/lease of this property mention nothing about needing to display any sort of permit. This means I or anybody I permit have the right to enjoy this parking space. There is no obligation to display any sort of permit, and certainly no need to pay any sort of parking ‘fine’. The deeds/lease override any contract the management company may have with a parking company – this is known as primacy of contract.

It is the same wardens who regularly patrol the car park. They will already have seen this car parked in this space many times before. This is a deliberate attempt to recoup extra money outside of the legitimate interests of the business. Proof of permission to park and the relevant contracts can be provided upon request.

I refer to Practice Direction for Pre-action conduct paragraphs 3, 13 and 14, and request that “sufficient information” is provided before this can proceed to court.
**
Objectives of pre-action conduct and protocols
3. Before commencing proceedings, the court will expect the parties to have exchanged sufficient information to—

(a) understand each other’s position;
(b) make decisions about how to proceed;
(c) try to settle the issues without proceedings;
(d) consider a form of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) to assist with settlement;
(e) support the efficient management of those proceedings; and
(f) reduce the costs of resolving the dispute.
**
If you are planning on proceeding to the court stage, there is currently a non-compliance with the Practice Direction for Pre-action conduct as there is no mention of the ADR within the letter. In addition, I have not received a letter from SIP that their dispute resolution has ended. They are therefore breaking the law, when considering The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015:

“19(2) Where a trader has exhausted its internal complaint handling procedure when considering a complaint from a consumer relating to a sales contract or a service contract, the trader must inform the consumer, on a durable medium— (a) that the trader cannot settle the complaint with the consumer; (b) of the name and website address of an ADR entity which would be competent to deal with the complaint, should the consumer wish to use alternative dispute resolution; and (c) whether the trader is obliged, or prepared, to submit to an alternative dispute resolution procedure operated by that ADR entity”.

For this matter alone, I plan to refer this matter to Trading Standards.

In order to fully understand your position and to comply with the Pre-action conduct paragraph 3, I expect the following information to be provided if you intend to send through court papers.

1. What are the terms of the contract? (e.g. a copy of the sign)
2. What exactly was the charge for? (your letter before claim is not specific and it needs to be)
3. How was the contract offered and accepted?
4. Is the charge for (a) trespass, (b) breach or a (c) contractual charge.
- If (a) or (b) a breakdown is needed. If (c) a VAT invoice
5. Is keeper liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, sch 4 being invoked or am I being pursued as the driver?
6. Are you pursuing me as (a) agent of the landowner, or as (b) principal?
- If (a) then authority from the landowner, (such as a redacted contract) is needed to demonstrate permission to operate on the leasehold space. (Note: if this cannot be demonstrated, it will be assumed SIP will be operating without permission in my space, and I will seek to reclaim my own costs for the collection of my data illegally from the DVLA)
7. Photographs of the vehicle without a permit displayed.

I am requesting SIP’s cooperation with your own legal insight as this will save both parties time, stress and further money. I may have to get legal assistance of my own to ensure I win this case, and I would be looking to recoup all my costs from the other side.

Yours faithfully,
**********
I was wondering if there would be anyone that has the way with words to input anything or help me with rewording this to relate more so to the company UK CPM.


I have also found out that they have a system set up online where ANYONE can issue tickets to vehicles that park on private land and they received £10 for each parking ticket that is paid. I am wondering whether this is how I have been caught.


Anyway, thank you for reading and if you cannot assist me Coupon-mad then not to worry, I hope someone who has read this will find me something that relates to UK CPM a bit more than the statement above, as I really want to acknowledge this so I prevent from receiving a Court Summons. I want to try and get it sent to Gladstones I presume as quickly as I can.


Thank you

Umkomaas

The one quoted above is about a residential parking charge, which yours is not. There will be much better and more apposite ones available. Spend your time researching them, not trying to make something out of one which is largely inappropriate to your case.

Rheebs25_2

Umkomaas wrote: »

The one quoted above is about a residential parking charge, which yours is not. There will be much better and more apposite ones available. Spend your time researching them, not trying to make something out of one which is largely inappropriate to your case.

ah okay thank you. I am still new to all of this so I struggle to find threads that have templates on them that are similar to those that I would need to use.


Thank you for taking the time to reply back though. I will see what I can find when searching similar threads, my situation is about parking on a private land outside a hotel. However there is no proof that the picture stated in the ticket shows that this is the case and there is no signage, I was wondering if that is something that would help me when putting together a response to the charge that is being issued.


Thanks again.


Will still appreciate any help anyone can give that has been through this.

Umkomaas

ah okay thank you. I am still new to all of this so I struggle to find threads that have templates on them that are similar to those that I would need to use.

Are you not just using the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post # 2? Sample LBCCC responses are all linked there. No need to search, almost randomly, the entire forum.

Also, don't look for responses that perfectly mirror your specific circumstances (like looking for one which includes parking in front of a hotel), but equally you need to make sure you're not using something totally unrelated, as per your first one.

Rheebs25_2

Okay many thanks. I have been looking in the newbies thread. I will have to look again to find the #2 part you speak about.

Just have to remember how i find the thread.

I will look into catering a letter to suit my situation. And i will come back to see whether you all think it will help or sound correct.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

My signature tells you where the thread is, 2 clicks away. You want to read the second post of it.

Rheebs25_2

Coupon-mad wrote: »

My signature tells you where the thread is, 2 clicks away. You want to read the second post of it.

I know I am probably one of those annoying so and so's that cannot find anything, but I have looked through the NEWBIES PARKING TICKET! OLD OR NEW?....it is the only one I can find with your signature on with this name. Below is a mock up of what I believe would be a good response that is close to what my situation is with UK car park management. However I am unsure whether they are the ones I would address it to. Basically I just want to get across the fact that the parking charge that they are chasing me for which is £160 has no reasoning within the LBC to why it is this amount.


Also from what I remember the PCN had a picture of my car with no signage within it which by law they should. Also the fact that anyone can issue a PCN via their website (uk cpm) so they receive a £10 payment for each ticket paid is disgraceful.
Dear UK Car Park Management

Re PCN number: 3******

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I am now aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that are contracted with your company and are they the landowner?
2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle with the signage within said photographs
5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera or timer used was synchronized with all other cameras and/or systems
6. Please provide reasoning to why I have been issued with a PCN and the reasons behind the large cost for a PCN



I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, as seems likely based on my research) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any neither obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me. I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle.

I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,


Registered Keeper


******************************
if this letter is not one I should send them I am clearly struggling. I have been advised by a friend of mine that they know of someone who responded and acknowledge these letters by not owning up to it etc and the PCN was cancelled.


again I am so sorry if I am being a pain

Umkomaas

Basically I just want to get across the fact that the parking charge that they are chasing me for which is £160 has no reasoning within the LBC to why it is this amount.

That is not the focus of your LBC response. You are denying that any debt exists, or that you owe their client anything and that you will vigorously defend any court case.

The copy and paste you've posted above is an initial appeal - it is not a response to a LBC. There is a specific section of the sticky devoted to responses to a LBA/LBC/LBCCC in post #2. You don't seem to be checking post #2.

Each post made on a thread has a number in the top r/h corner. In this thread, your prior post was #18, this post of mine will be #19. Each number has a hashtag in front of it.

So you now need to go to the sticky and scroll well down the thread to #2 (each post in the sticky is very long and I don't think you've scrolled down far enough to find #2 because what you copied and pasted above came from post #1).

Once you find #2, continue to scroll well down that to find the bit about LBCs etc.

Rheebs25_2

Umkomaas wrote: »

That is not the focus of your LBC response. You are denying that any debt exists, or that you owe their client anything and that you will vigorously defend any court case.

The copy and paste you've posted above is an initial appeal - it is not a response to a LBC. There is a specific section of the sticky devoted to responses to a LBA/LBC/LBCCC in post #2. You don't seem to be checking post #2.

Each post made on a thread has a number in the top r/h corner. In this thread, your prior post was #18, this post of mine will be #19. Each number has a hashtag in front of it.

So you now need to go to the sticky and scroll well down the thread to #2 (each post in the sticky is very long and I don't think you've scrolled down far enough to find #2 because what you copied and pasted above came from post #1).

Once you find #2, continue to scroll well down that to find the bit about LBCs etc.

OMG thank you so much, I now see what everyone means about #2 numbers etc. Thank you for explaining that to me


I will go back to the NEWBIES thread I found and look out for #2


I will be back

Umkomaas

I now see what everyone means about #2 numbers etc. Thank you for explaining that to me

Phew! :cool:

It's so good when a penny drops!