Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

setmefree2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Regardless, I don't think we'll make that mistake next time.

I'm a Remainer who would vote Leave next time so don't be too sure....however, I don't think there will be a next time....

TrickyTree83

always_sunny wrote: »

Mostly frustrated with the ongoing bashing towards the EU, I think you and others forget that the EU is 'home' to millions of citizens who are happy to be in the EU, happy to see the EU evolving and move forward.

Don't like it? Fair enough, Brexit and move on because with all this moaning sounds like as someone regretting leaving. Folks like you in the UK are constantly trying to prove a point as if the UK is any better when most of the time it's either worse or the same really.

Are you telling me it is democratic that taxpayers foot the bill of a HoL that as you describe is 'oversight committee, they have no real power if parliament overrules them'? The monarchy, even if they perform a rubber stamp function is a 'body' that it is unelected.

It's good to have checks and balances, it's rare that there is a need to overrule the HoL. There are benefits to not having an elected 2nd chamber. Lobbyists have less influence as there's no need to fund re-election like the US Senate. It could go and I wouldn't be upset about it as long as we replace it with a functioning 2nd chamber to keep the HoC in check.

If you're frustrated that's fair enough but I'm not bashing the EU out of spite. It's a truth that MEP's cannot change the legislation without bureaucratic blessings from the commission who not one vote was cast for by the people. It's a truth that added to a multitude of other reasons that resulted in a leave vote for some people.

The monarchy does no one any harm as far as I can tell. Apart from maybe Andrew, there's always one black sheep. I wouldn't put Phillip in that category as he's too old to know better now. Like most elderly they'll say and do as they please.

I'm not trying to prove who is better or who is worse, that argument is completely irrelevant. We can change our national systems if we want to via parliament.

TrickyTree83

Arklight wrote: »

Most people don't really have a choice of where to live. They live where they do due to accident of circumstance, not least of all birth.

Of course there are some go getting high achievers who do take on arduous journeys over deserts and mountains, followed by dangerous sea voyages, and finally jump on the back of a lorry to smuggle themselves into the place they want to be.

And we know Brexit people think about them.

Otherwise, as far as I am aware, everyone who lives here gets a say in how it's run. It does seem to be a peculiar axiom of the Right that anyone who doesn't agree with them is unpatriotic and should leave immediately.

But the we'd all be jumping on the back of lorries. And you lot hate that apparently.

If I were moaning about the UK so much it would be in my mind to move somewhere more in line with my expectations. That's not right wing think, it's common sense and was a genuine question to the poster. Nor did I say that they shouldn't have a say in how it's ran, afaik they can vote in the GE.

setmefree2

buglawton wrote: »

Todays Brexit headline: "Brexit: UK to be 'educated' about consequences, says Barnier".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

The EU's Brexit negotiator has said he sees the process as an opportunity to "teach the British people and others what leaving the EU means".
Michel Barnier said he would never resort to blackmail but saw it as his job to "educate" the UK about the price it would pay for leaving the EU "club".

I think it's the EU who are getting an education - on what it's going to be like living without UK money....

Barnier can have an even bigger lesson on what its like to live without UK trade....

Child.

cogito

I'd much rather have a head of state like the Queen than some elected politico like Blair, Clegg or Major.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Pay up until 2023, German EU chief tells UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/02/pay-2023-german-eu-chief-tells-uk/
It looks like "silly" may be an understatement regarding the viewpoint of some Eurocrats.
The response?

Mr Redwood said: "There's no way we are going to go on paying after we have left. That would be completely idiotic. We don't owe them any contributions after we have left, full stop."

Rusty_Shackleton

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

You think that describing the UK as: "It doesn't pretend it's some mini superpower run by toffs who want to turn the clock back 100 years." is not anti-British or unpatriotic then?
Perhaps the opening of some eyes may be beneficial.
Since you caused such disruption in PartII that this thread was started though, I am not surprised.

What is anti-British or unpatriotic to point out that the UK does, at times, have delusions of granduer? There is visibly an imperial attitude in some areas of our society, certain newspapers and politicians come to mind. There is also a popular perception of the empire being this great thing, and while it had some admirable accomplishments, a lot of people gloss over (or arent aware) of some appalling crimes committed by the state... Hell we basically had concentration camps in Kenya in the 20th century. As for being run by toffs wanting to turn the clock back 100 years, thats a comment about a political party - and given the highly disproportionate number of Eton and Oxbridge alumni in government, the first half is hardly disputable.

Your last sentence is incredibly ironic when you're replying to my point that people need to stop trying to play the man instead of the ball. Im getting an awful lot of credit for going off on a tangent in part 2, its interesting how you and others seem to think I was debating with myself... Is there a reason you don't mention the brexit supporting posters who were taking part?

setmefree2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Personally I find such a tone offensive. People don't need to have high IQ's to be decent honest people. Displaying an air of arrogance and impoliteness about others suggests a lack of common decency.

As someone who voted Remain I have been disgusted and deeply saddened by the way in which the white working classes have been trashed in the UK post the referendum.

As a consequence, I would vote Leave in any future referendum.

Remoaners you are not a group of people I want to be associated with. You're an embarrassment and you need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

The POV of a UK remainer:

I’m a remainer. I thought the UK would be better off staying in the European Union.
But if there’s one thing that might change my mind, it’s the European Union itself.

Some people might argue that it’s inevitable the EU would try to punish the UK for leaving. The EU doesn’t want Brexit to be a success, because that might encourage other countries to follow our lead.
Perhaps so, but do we want to be part of a club which relies on fear of reprisals to stop its members quitting?

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/more-eu-plays-games-over-13564540

________________________________________________

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Im getting an awful lot of credit for going off on a tangent in part 2 .........

Quite so and that is reason enough why I refuse to be drawn further into your petty pseudo-debates.
Your "debate" has in the past had a tendency to lead to what a poster on there very correctly posted about your choice of terminology:

thats not very nice.

dunstonh

Well I voted remain & due to the ongoing disasters by our politicians, who at times appear to be dividing one brain cell between them, our only option would appear to be a hard exit.

Actually, after what appeared a shaky start, this week was a good one for the UK. The EU was clearly rattled and if you avoid the Daily Express (Brexit Extreme) and the Guardian (Remain extreme) and look at the less biased coverage, the UK seems have to have come off better this time. Of course, this is only the start and plenty of time to have good and bad weeks.

The shaky start seemed to come from the fact that the UK wanted discussions, concepts and ideas on how the future relationship would work and then build on it from there. The EU put in a much more rigid stance in a limited area and published just on those areas. So, you had two totally different styles clashing and the EU won that round.

Although the UK is still highlighting things like how can you decide how the UK/Ireland border is going to work without knowing what the future relationship is going to be and that seems to be gaining some traction.

As someone who voted Remain I have been disgusted and deeply saddened by the way in which the white working classes have been trashed in the UK post the referendum.

I'm the same. I voted remain. However, the way the EU has treated the UK since is nothing short of disgraceful. You expect the outer circle on both sides to have a bit of sniping at each other in the press. However, for senior politicians like Verhofstadt and Juncker to be so openly disrespectful to the UK and the democratic vote has made me feel that we are probably better out of the EU. I would vote leave now instead.