Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

badmemory

Well I voted remain & due to the ongoing disasters by our politicians, who at times appear to be dividing one brain cell between them, our only option would appear to be a hard exit.

What I would like to see is Cameron tried for treason. Why was he even remotely surprised at the outcome. He had spent years blaming the EU for everything, regardless of the actual truth, then calls a vote. What did he expect to happen? I'd love to know what happened to his family millions, I bet they didn't take any hit & were well away from sterling.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Conrad wrote: »

Merkel will likely win the German election and thereafter trade talks will get real. She's always been a pragmatist and absolutely will not compromise German exports to the UK nor wish to disrupt access to Europes Banker, The City.

Those of you clinging to the idea key exporter contributor nations will seek to harm thier trade and thus thier tax receipts will have quite an awakening.

Quite so and agreed.

But what these vehement Europhiles refuse to accept are the ongoing problems within the EU that sway Eurocrats views of how Brexit negotiations must be undertaken and hence the "immovable" stance to date.
Anything to dissuade others from leaving, as was said long ago.

We are still seeing disagreement from the Visegrad group, and it is well-known how Austrians are perhaps on the cusp of a far-right win in their October parliamentary elections - although polls suggest otherwise so far. It is still evident that dissatisfaction with at least some aspects of EU policies runs high there too.

But Italy - currently at loggerheads with France and Germany - faces elections by May next year. As well as ongoing concerns regarding migration there are other major issues:

Its GDP has yet to recover to pre-crisis levels, unemployment is high and its bank sector is weak. This has given a real platform for euro sceptics, a danger as the country heads towards an election next year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/01/reuters-america-global-economy-enter-the-draghi.html

A referendum on Italy’s membership of the euro currency would be held only as a “last resort” if Rome does not win any fiscal concessions from the European Union, a senior lawmaker from the anti-establishment Five-Star Movement said on Sunday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-italy-fivestar-euro/italys-5-star-says-euro-referendum-would-be-last-resort-idUKKCN1BE0K7?il=0

Does anybody really think the EU would give Rome concessions judging by current behaviour? Interesting times lay ahead - and again whether or not 5 Star become more dominant there is no doubt of the strength of anti-EU sentiment in Italy.
Despite what some (even those who are Italian ) in these threads may tell you, statistics clearly show the sentiment; this from late last year:

Interestingly I can find no recent poll; attitudes ARE strengthening but perhaps there is a desire not to examine this perception in the light of forthcoming elections.


Again, no I am not suggesting the imminent departure of other nations from the clutches of the EU.
What I am doing is showing why the EU stance on Brexit so far is one of arrogant domination - and whilst this might indeed improve after German elections the above may provide reasons why it might not.
The EU remain all too well aware that others might well question their own membership if the UK achieves a "good deal".
In other words, the EU are frightened (this is evident from the tone of language coming post-talks).
Very frightened.
Shame, eh?

TrickyTree83

always_sunny wrote: »

The UK is always different, always the best.
So someone who was elected [as a candidate for a party by the people] becomes a MP in Maidenhead in 1997 then got promoted [not by the people] to become Home Secretary few years later. To then become PM in 2017 again without being elected by the people, cause of course, you vote parties, not people and these people can be shuffled without much of your democratic say.

The UK, where the people only have 'voice' on the House of Commons and not the House of Lords, is totally different. Just the name of these two house sounds iffy. Let's not forget the head of monarchy again, totally unelected. But it's very democratic for them to propose and approve new legislations.

So because of this 'completely democratic' system you keep referring to, folks in this thread keep arguing that the UK joined the EU without consent. The UK is good at keeping up appearances of giving power to the plebs.

The only one believing Santa Claus is you.

Eh?

You clearly just have a chip on your shoulder regarding the UK.

Do you know how political parties in other EU states choose their candidates, ministers and party leaders?

The HoL works as an oversight committee, they have no real power if parliament overrules them. You know this I assume?

The monarchy hasn't used power over the government to change the course of the nation for a while now. Why bring them up? Why?

It seems as though you're just intensely bitter about all of this, I don't understand why you would choose to live here if you hate it so much...

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Joeskeppi wrote: »

And I'm sure the entire voting population are well on top of their civic duty.

Does this have to be about leave/remain? Just for once can we leave the tribalism behind? It's so boring.

The general public are not informed on a subject of this complexity. By all means let them vote on a colour of a flag or a name of a boat.

And yet presumably you think that the general public voting in a general election where similarly difficult and complex issues are involved is okay?
Maybe you preferred the era where females were denied any vote?
How about when only gentry were allowed to vote?
Yes, let's return to the eighteenth century.
That is no more ridiculous than your suggestion after all.

Filo25

It'll all be fine and the EU will be on their knees offering us everything we want soon, as they need us far more than we need them.

I know this as the more prominent Brexti supporters on here told me so pre-referendum.

Joking aside I'm bored of the finger pointing and blaming, the Brexit supporting politicians promised us a glorious future if we voted to leave, get on with delivering it, rather than blaming everyone apart from themselves (EU, disloyal Remoaners, etc.) when it proves to be a lot more difficult to achieve than promised.

Filo25

In answer to the original question I don't think there will be a second referendum unless we see a significant move in public opinion against Brexit, and I don't see any sign of that at present.

Brexit was driven through by the will of the people and it can only be reversed by that.

If opinion does shift it will be due to an abject failure to get close to delivering the deal that was promised to the electorate during the referendum campaign.

Arklight

Conrad wrote: »

There's a must see speech on BBC I-player, the Parliament channel by Boris Johnson in Australia.

He asks the audience to consider Australia's sucess as an independant nation with 26 yrs of unbroken growth and GDP per capita 25% higher than the UKs, it's global participation and striving can-do image and asks Aussies that fell for the Remain project fear nonsense to step back and recognise all they've achieved as a proud confident independent state.

He goes on to consider the fact the UK is the developed nation with the highest proportion of its citizens living abroad, how we are natural wanders and globalists but of course committed Europeans just as Shakespeare was the most European of all historic playrights

This would be funny if it weren't so infuriating.

Australia is a socially democratic country that invests heavily in infrastructure, education, health, and welfare. It doesn't pretend it's some mini superpower run by toffs who want to turn the clock back 100 years.

The minimum wage in Australia is almost £11 an hour.

In the UK, an 18 year old entering the work force will earn just £5.60 an hour. She can get to her job on hopeless privatised trains that are now more expensive than any other country in the entire world to start a zero hours contract

Wherever she lives will cost most of her income in rent. Of course she can go to university if she wants. That's now in average more expensive than studying in America.

With a 4 week wait to see a GP, and no employment rights whatsoever she better make sure she doesn't get pregnant or sick though.

Brexit isn't all bad though. The Tories have spotted the silver lining that free of the EU shackles and their meddling in things Like, basic human rights, it'll give them the opportunity to screw over normal working people even more than before.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-peer-brexit-young-people-lord-harris-work-longer-hours-uk-leave-eu-a7922486.html

A Tory peer has argued Brexit is a good thing because it will allow young people to work longer hours.

Lord Harris, a retail tycoon estimated to be worth more than £100m, claimed he could only employ staff for 35 hours a week under current EU laws.

And some Bullingdon thug like Boris Johnson is pompously lecturing Australians that the reason the UK has fallen so far behind is because we haven't had enough Tory beggar thy neighbour politics due to the EU, a bloc of countries, any one of which, provides a better standard of living than Britain.

:mad::mad::mad:
:wall:

Arklight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Eh?

You clearly just have a chip on your shoulder regarding the UK.

Do you know how political parties in other EU states choose their candidates, ministers and party leaders?

The HoL works as an oversight committee, they have no real power if parliament overrules them. You know this I assume?

The monarchy hasn't used power over the government to change the course of the nation for a while now. Why bring them up? Why?

It seems as though you're just intensely bitter about all of this, I don't understand why you would choose to live here if you hate it so much...

Most people don't really have a choice of where to live. They live where they do due to accident of circumstance, not least of all birth.

Of course there are some go getting high achievers who do take on arduous journeys over deserts and mountains, followed by dangerous sea voyages, and finally jump on the back of a lorry to smuggle themselves into the place they want to be.

And we know Brexit people think about them.

Otherwise, as far as I am aware, everyone who lives here gets a say in how it's run. It does seem to be a peculiar axiom of the Right that anyone who doesn't agree with them is unpatriotic and should leave immediately.

But the we'd all be jumping on the back of lorries. And you lot hate that apparently.

Arklight

Conrad wrote: »

Second highest contributor to UN and foreign aid and the EU budget, the second or first Soft Power, major contributor of military around the world to include on the Russian border, straight in on the ground to sort Ebola, private charitable contributions with no equal for tragedies such as the Philipinnes Typoon or any number of famines, largest contributor to Syrian camps, second at the Olympics and ParaOlympics, second largest aerospace and satellite industry, highest number of citizens living abroad of any developed nation, 15% of the worlds science papers, 15% of No el Laureates, international trade done in English under English law, English adopted as the international aviation and maritime language, I could go on and on.

Self loathing Brits have a totally warped and ignorant view of our place in the world, they don't even get the fact people like Boris are incredibly well recieved abroad, just see the Aussie news outlets on his recent visit.

Yeah. Boris went down really well.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/boris-johnson-seen-as-an-international-joke/news-story/d347758014c69aec4c1f75cef60b6b0c

Boris Johnson seen as an international joke

Boris Johnson is becoming the Where’s Wally? of international diplomacy. All over the world the geopolitical tectonic plates are shifting yet at this time of huge global significance the foreign secretary is all but invisible on the international stage. On the nuclear threat posed by North Korea, the crisis over Saudi Arabia and Qatar or the clash between the US and China, he is irrelevant. On Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Venezuela, Turkey and Yemen, he is incoherent. Occasionally he surfaces briefly, like a hostage paraded before the television cameras to prove he is still alive, as he did after a visit to Libya last week, but even then he is ineffective because he has ceded all influence to others.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Arklight wrote: »

This would be funny if it weren't so infuriating.

Australia is a socially democratic country that invests heavily in infrastructure, education, health, and welfare. It doesn't pretend it's some mini superpower run by toffs who want to turn the clock back 100 years.

The minimum wage in Australia is almost £11 an hour.

In the UK, an 18 year old entering the work force will earn just £5.60 an hour. She can get to her job on hopeless privatised trains that are now more expensive than any other country in the entire world to start a zero hours contract

Wherever she lives will cost most of her income in rent. Of course she can go to university if she wants. That's now in average more expensive than studying in America.

With a 4 week wait to see a GP, and no employment rights whatsoever she better make sure she doesn't get pregnant or sick though.

Brexit isn't all bad though. The Tories have spotted the silver lining that free of the EU shackles and their meddling in things Like, basic human rights, it'll give them the opportunity to screw over normal working people even more than before.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-peer-brexit-young-people-lord-harris-work-longer-hours-uk-leave-eu-a7922486.html



And some Bullingdon thug like Boris Johnson is pompously lecturing Australians that the reason the UK has fallen so far behind is because we haven't had enough Tory beggar thy neighbour politics due to the EU, a bloc of countries, any one of which, provides a better standard of living than Britain.

:mad::mad::mad:
:wall:

Ah, more "I hate Britain" blurb eh?

Well FYI an 18-yr-old starting work in Oz would earn £7 per hour (*1) minimum - does that sound like a heck of a lot more to you?
Then what about the effects of a cost of living that is over 18% higher than the UK's? (*2)
Oh look, that alone brings you to the equivalent of £5-70.
MILES better off, that.
:rotfl:

There's not really much point going any further but really, if you are so determined to spout anti-British carp you could at least do your homework first and get your facts straight please.


*1 http://worksite.actu.org.au/youth-entry-level-wages/

*2 https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Australia