Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

System

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'd wager there's leave voters on this forum that would humiliate your level of EU knowledge.

I don't doubt that at all, so why let me vote on it? it's ridiculous.

Conrad

Merkel will likely win the German election and thereafter trade talks will get real. She's always been a pragmatist and absolutely will not compromise German exports to the UK nor wish to disrupt access to Europes Banker, The City.

Those of you clinging to the idea key exporter contributor nations will seek to harm thier trade and thus thier tax receipts will have quite an awakening.

cogito

always_sunny wrote: »

That is by design though, not by defect. You make it sound as if it is a problem when it is not.
There are talks whether this should change and expanded and fair enough, evolving.

The EU Commission is made up of EU28 representatives, the design of the EU is different than what you might have in a country. Whatever the Commission drafts has to be approved by the Council and Parliament majority or it goes back (see diagram).

You seem stuck with this "Democratic? I don't think so" as if the UK is a beacon of democracy when in fact it is not much different is it?

You think there is a possibility that the Commission would give up any of its powers? Do you also believe in Santa Claus?

The UK parliamentary system is totally different. The government has power to propose legislation as do individual MPs through Private Members Bills, the HoL is a revising chamber and the HoC has final say, invoking the Parliament Act if necessary. There is no resemblance.

Conrad

gfplux wrote: »

These sort of posts are worth gold as they are actually from the coal face rather than my and others speculation.
Thank you AFF.
This "bulking up their presence" are those plans the same as six months ago. Have you noticed any changes in the contingency plans as the slanging match that is the negotiations has increased.
If there is no change I commend their nerve but wonder at their judgement. Do they have inside information.

Once again your filter is set to 11.

Time and again I've pointed out to you that on the whole the EU is nothing like as Banker freindly as the City, and the contrast is set to sharpen as Mifid 2 and Basal 4 rules come into effect.

You employ very narrow logic, you don't seem to want to sit back and consider all the factors financial services firms will of course be considering.

TrickyTree83

Joeskeppi wrote: »

I don't doubt that at all, so why let me vote on it? it's ridiculous.

Why not let you vote on it? It's up to your own sense of civic duty to ensure you're informed, no one else.

Conrad

There's a must see speech on BBC I-player, the Parliament channel by Boris Johnson in Australia.

He asks the audience to consider Australia's sucess as an independant nation with 26 yrs of unbroken growth and GDP per capita 25% higher than the UKs, it's global participation and striving can-do image and asks Aussies that fell for the Remain project fear nonsense to step back and recognise all they've achieved as a proud confident independent state.

He goes on to consider the fact the UK is the developed nation with the highest proportion of its citizens living abroad, how we are natural wanders and globalists but of course committed Europeans just as Shakespeare was the most European of all historic playrights

always_sunny

cogito wrote: »

You think there is a possibility that the Commission would give up any of its powers? Do you also believe in Santa Claus?

The UK parliamentary system is totally different. The government has power to propose legislation as do individual MPs through Private Members Bills, the HoL is a revising chamber and the HoC has final say, invoking the Parliament Act if necessary. There is no resemblance.

The UK is always different, always the best.
So someone who was elected [as a candidate for a party by the people] becomes a MP in Maidenhead in 1997 then got promoted [not by the people] to become Home Secretary few years later. To then become PM in 2017 again without being elected by the people, cause of course, you vote parties, not people and these people can be shuffled without much of your democratic say.

The UK, where the people only have 'voice' on the House of Commons and not the House of Lords, is totally different. Just the name of these two house sounds iffy. Let's not forget the head of monarchy again, totally unelected. But it's very democratic for them to propose and approve new legislations.

So because of this 'completely democratic' system you keep referring to, folks in this thread keep arguing that the UK joined the EU without consent. The UK is good at keeping up appearances of giving power to the plebs.

The only one believing Santa Claus is you.

System

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Why not let you vote on it? It's up to your own sense of civic duty to ensure you're informed, no one else.

And I'm sure the entire voting population are well on top of their civic duty.

Does this have to be about leave/remain? Just for once can we leave the tribalism behind? It's so boring.

The general public are not informed on a subject of this complexity. By all means let them vote on a colour of a flag or a name of a boat.

Conrad

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Seriously? This attitude is exactly the problem with the UK on the world stage, a gross sense of entitlement and exceptionalism

Second highest contributor to UN and foreign aid and the EU budget, the second or first Soft Power, major contributor of military around the world to include on the Russian border, straight in on the ground to sort Ebola, private charitable contributions with no equal for tragedies such as the Philipinnes Typoon or any number of famines, largest contributor to Syrian camps, second at the Olympics and ParaOlympics, second largest aerospace and satellite industry, highest number of citizens living abroad of any developed nation, 15% of the worlds science papers, 15% of No el Laureates, international trade done in English under English law, English adopted as the international aviation and maritime language, I could go on and on.

Self loathing Brits have a totally warped and ignorant view of our place in the world, they don't even get the fact people like Boris are incredibly well recieved abroad, just see the Aussie news outlets on his recent visit.

TrickyTree83

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

No, i got your point that MEPs don't propose legislation, im saying that the fact doesnt make you powerless at the ballot box. MEPs give you one level of influence, in that they approve/reject/amend legislation, while your democratically elected government has a representative that can propose legislation, and your democratically elected PM sits in the Council.

If you felt you got a bad deal financially with the EU and you voted for Thatcher, well she got us the rebate. The idea that the EU is undemocratic and that any EU citizen doesn't have representation is false.

It is a different system to the UK, yes, but that does not mean it is undemocratic, and you clearly do have representation in several ways.

Many people more learned than myself have spoken at length about the issue of EU representation, none as far as I'm aware have defended the current system, yet it persists.

- The EU parliament is not able to be held accountable by the electorate for not proposing legislation because it can't.

- The commission cannot be held accountable by the electorate because they are not elected.

- You could argue that the electorate in the UK could remove an EU commissioner appointed by a national political party but if we don't like what the rest are doing, where is the accountability to the people of the UK there? Or any other EU member state? If an idea proves popular in the rest of the EU that harms your national interest do you just roll over and take it, because reasons?

What we are seeing with Hungary, Poland, Slovenia, etc... is that they too recognise this deficit now where you can vote in your national interest at every step of the process and still be ignored. It might be considered democratic if the EU were a country (USA), but it's not, I understand it's trying to be but it's not.