Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Filo25 wrote: »

In answer to the original question I don't think there will be a second referendum unless we see a significant move in public opinion against Brexit, and I don't see any sign of that at present.

Brexit was driven through by the will of the people and it can only be reversed by that.

If opinion does shift it will be due to an abject failure to get close to delivering the deal that was promised to the electorate during the referendum campaign.

The only firm promise was that made on the referendum voting sheet:


If opinion does shift it will be due to the wishes of the electorate not being adhered to following their vote.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

If opinion does shift it will be due to an abject failure to get close to delivering the deal that was promised to the electorate during the referendum campaign.

What deal? Life simply goes on.

Rusty_Shackleton

You guys need to give the 'anti British' /unpatriotic/hate the UK accusations a rest, it reeks of trying to play the man instead of the ball - most of us live in the UK and have a vested interest in the success of this country, regardless of political beliefs or stance on the EU. None of us hate the UK, we just disagree on what the proud and shameful aspects are. Recognising and acknowledging your countrys flaws is healthy, thinking your country is glorious and can do no wrong is dangerous.

Rusty_Shackleton

AFF8879 wrote: »

Also, if you have huge swathes of cheap labour entering the country what would you expect? Comparing our minimum wage vs Australia is a pointless argument as that number is a construct of so many factors. You do know Australia is desperate to have more immigration, right? And rightly so, it can offer incentives to migrants specialising in areas where they are short in technical skills and turn away those who offer little/ are skilled in areas where there is little demand. Currently we have none of those abilities.

We do have the ability for non-EU immigration, and for EU immigration proper enforcement of the NMW and atopping state subsidy of low paid employment would go a long way to addressing the issue. Again though, these are things successive UK governments have CHOSEN not to do, including the last home sec... Someone remind me what she does now?

BobQ

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Show me a system of government in Europe other than the EU that can bind parliaments that come after it.

That's all I need to say in response Bob, because that's the problem when you vote for an MEP.

There are many systems of Government that are based on Written Constitutions with eternity clauses that prevent changes to parts of that Constitution. Germany for example has such an eternity clause and amendments by Governments cannot change particular clauses.

But the point is that the EU is not a country it ia supra-national treaty based system. Its processes are designed to enable national Governments (not electorates) to exercise control including by appointed commissioners.

Equally when I vote for my MP I have no exercise over who the elected Government is. My MP has a huge majority so without proportional representation I cannot even influence the Government.

Your understanding of the HoL appears to have gaps in it too

.

A cheap argument without explanation.

It's cut and dry, your vote in the UK in relation to the EU means nothing but to advise and recommend to the commission. Find it British arrogance if you want, I believe you'll find the rest of the world call it the truth.

Shop messing with my words. I said that it is typical British arrogance to believe that ours is the only truly democratic system of government.

When you join an international group you are bound by the agreed processes it uses. The EU is no different. A vote for an MEP is only designed to elect a representative to debate issues in a forum with defined powers and to support their constituents as they choose.

You may believe that the EU Parliament has too few powers but that is the fault of the national governments for endorsing such a system.

I do think it is fair to say that you do not like the EU's processes and that that was a reason for voting to leave, but we are in no position to lecture others about democracy when our system is as flawed as many of our allies.

BobQ

always_sunny wrote: »

Maybe on the British side but Brexit wouldn't automatically be 'undone' as if nothing ever happened.

It doesn't works that dramatically different from other ones though:
"The Parliament, jointly with the Council of the EU, passes laws and adopts the EU’s annual budget." while the "European Commission: The executive branch of the EU, the European Commission proposes legislation..." and "Council of the European Union: Made up of ministers from the 28 Member State governments"

The EU is slightly more complex, where Member States are involved early on.

To be fair, he did say if the EU agree

buglawton

Todays Brexit headline: "Brexit: UK to be 'educated' about consequences, says Barnier".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

So, finally it''s realised that the EU has an electric fence around it, lest any of the more adventurous sheep nations should decided make a... Brexit.

The psychology of this interesting.

Poll:
Will sinister-sounding threats like this from Barnier and his cohorts:
a) Keep the other 27 from thinking of leaving
or
b) Cause some of them to decide to make a break for it sooner rather then later

BobQ

always_sunny wrote: »

You seem stuck with this "Democratic? I don't think so" as if the UK is a beacon of democracy when in fact it is not much different is it?

Given that we have a minority Government supported by a minority of the electorate about to force its MPs on a three line whip to vote for a Repeal Bill that grants ministers the ability to change law under Henry Eighth powers it really is not much different is it!

BobQ

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

Another indication that Barnier is intent on uniting the Brits against the EU.........

Tromking

BobQ wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

Another indication that Barnier is intent on uniting the Brits against the EU.........

......and you accuse the UK and its people of being arrogant.