Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

setmefree2

Originally Posted by Rusty Shackleton
You guys need to give the 'anti British' /unpatriotic/hate the UK accusations a rest, it reeks of trying to play the man instead of the ball - most of us live in the UK and have a vested interest in the success of this country, regardless of political beliefs or stance on the EU. None of us hate the UK, we just disagree on what the proud and shameful aspects are. Recognising and acknowledging your countrys flaws is healthy, thinking your country is glorious and can do no wrong is dangerous.

I seem to recall that Rusty (and his many sockies) works for the German company SAP - so I'm sure he does have a vested interest in the UK staying in the EU and is not really thinking of the greater good.....but his own pocket.

Completely explains his rage fwiw.

Arklight

The EU is about to bring the pain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michel-barnier-david-davis-brexit-educational-teach-uk-leaving-single-market-negotiations-a7927336.html

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has Brexit will be used to “teach the British people and others what leaving the EU means”.

In highly inflammatory comments made to a conference in Italy on Saturday, Mr Barnier said it was his job to “educate” the UK about the price of leaving the EU “club”.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

The two posters above are certainly not alone.
I posted this on another thread but is is relevant here too:

I’m a remainer. I thought the UK would be better off staying in the European Union.
But if there’s one thing that might change my mind, it’s the European Union itself.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/more-eu-plays-games-over-13564540

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Arklight wrote: »

The EU is about to bring the pain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michel-barnier-david-davis-brexit-educational-teach-uk-leaving-single-market-negotiations-a7927336.html

:rotfl:
More like "The EU is already feeling the pain."

The BBC reporting of that is not so many posts above yours, #474
Here's the very first response:

Tromking wrote: »

......and you accuse the UK and its people of being arrogant.

:T

Filo25

setmefree2 wrote: »

As someone who voted Remain I have been disgusted and deeply saddened by the way in which the white working classes have been trashed in the UK post the referendum.

As a consequence, I would vote Leave in any future referendum.

Remoaners you are not a group of people I want to be associated with. You're an embarrassment and you need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

So you have issues with the way in which a varied group "the white working class" have been demonised and had stereotypes applied to them, and then do the same to "Remoaners", fair enough.

I will freely admit to being a Remoaner, I don't hate my country, I don't hate people who voted for Brexit, but I think it was an act of economic self destruction.

I don't think Britain will fall apart outside the EU, I don;t think it will stop trading with the EU, but I think we will largely be poorer than we otherwise would be (indeed we already are to a small extent), Brexit supporters still haven't convinced me that I will gain anything else from Brexit to make up for us being a bit poorer.

Just over a year ago we were all being told that the EU needed us far more than we needed them and we had them over a barrel, that seems a long time ago, now we get prominent Leavers telling us the big bad EU is trying to blackmail us (which should be pretty hard to do given that we apparently have all the bargaining power).

All of this was immensely predictable, a lot of us predicted it on here long ago, of course rather than admit that some claims which were made by the Leave campaign (and the Remain one for that matter) were based more in fantasy than reality, instead we get the blaming of the predictable usual suspects, the EU, Remoaners, Elites, Saboteurs, etc. , that unfortunately was also equally predictable

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

Just over a year ago we were all being told that the EU needed us far more than we needed them and we had them over a barrel, that seems a long time ago, now we get prominent Leavers telling us the big bad EU is trying to blackmail us (which should be pretty hard to do given that we apparently have all the bargaining power).

Nothing has changed. The EU wants the UK's money. That's the bottom line. As for over a barrel, that's nonsence. This is a negotiation. The UK has a liability. There's no disagreement with that fact. Loading the dice is where the blackmail comes in. Seems as if there's a dislike of the UK in certain quarters. That's tainting the discussions. Politics before people one might say.

setmefree2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Politics before people one might say.

Yes. Let us not forget that when Barnier says he wants to teach the UK a lesson he is actually talking about real people in Europe and the UK losing their jobs and possibly destroying businesses.

He's a disgrace. He should be sacked.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Filo25 wrote: »

So you have issues with the way in which a varied group "the white working class" have been demonised and had stereotypes applied to them, and then do the same to "Remoaners", fair enough.

I will freely admit to being a Remoaner, I don't hate my country, I don't hate people who voted for Brexit, but I think it was an act of economic self destruction.

I don't think Britain will fall apart outside the EU, I don;t think it will stop trading with the EU, but I think we will largely be poorer than we otherwise would be (indeed we already are to a small extent), Brexit supporters still haven't convinced me that I will gain anything else from Brexit to make up for us being a bit poorer.

Just over a year ago we were all being told that the EU needed us far more than we needed them and we had them over a barrel, that seems a long time ago, now we get prominent Leavers telling us the big bad EU is trying to blackmail us (which should be pretty hard to do given that we apparently have all the bargaining power).

All of this was immensely predictable, a lot of us predicted it on here long ago, of course rather than admit that some claims which were made by the Leave campaign (and the Remain one for that matter) were based more in fantasy than reality, instead we get the blaming of the predictable usual suspects, the EU, Remoaners, Elites, Saboteurs, etc. , that unfortunately was also equally predictable

Now as someone admittedly more pro-leave than pro-remain and yet with a capacity to interpret facts & figures, some of your statements therein I must take issue with:

There is so far absolutely no evidence that we will be poorer outside the EU than in it - in fact the opposite does appear to be more likely on balance.

Remain supporters still haven't convinced me that I will lose anything from Brexit as opposed to remaining making us a bit poorer. Until some other EU poop hits the fan or some other fabrication is made and we get another request for additional funds, as has happened before. (£1.7 billion in 2014 for example.)

The language coming from senior Eurocrats is suggestive of the fear they have of losing a major contributor. There is absolutely no reason otherwise for the tone taken, as covered widely in threads within these very forums.

The talk of "blame" smacks of desperation - more-so given so far absolutely nothing has been agreed between ourselves and the EU regarding Brexit.
You might like predictions, but reality is often far different.
Once an outcome is known and if there remains any necessity to apportion blame you may do so if appropriate; beforehand is (politely) both premature and foolhardy.

FYI the above applies equally to both pro-remain and to pro-leave.
So far however any talk of impending doom flies in the face of statistical evidence.

Filo25

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Nothing has changed. The EU wants the UK's money. That's the bottom line. As for over a barrel, that's nonsence. This is a negotiation. The UK has a liability. There's no disagreement with that fact. Loading the dice is where the blackmail comes in. Seems as if there's a dislike of the UK in certain quarters. That's tainting the discussions. Politics before people one might say.

EU politicians are playing to their domestic galleries in exactly the same way ours are, its hardly a surprise, the whole thing is so depressingly predictable.

I may think Brexit was an act of lunacy but don't mistake that for any great love for the institutions of the EU.

Ever since we decided to leave both "sides" are very much out for a combination of their own political and economic interests and will use pretty much whatever they have to hand to achieve the best outcome as far as those goals are concerned.

System

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

That is no more ridiculous than your suggestion after all.

My suggestion that the public aren't qualified to decide if we should leave the EU or not is as ridiculous as denying votes to people based on gender or class?

Ok