Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

Conrad

always_sunny wrote: »

I didn't even see that one! Why do you think the UK should have preferential treatment over Canada? The EU is already working on FTAs, why do you think it should drop everything and do one with the UK in less than 2 years?

1) UK-EU trade is already free and fully aligned


2) Standards and rules already apply to both camps


3) EU trade with UK is 10 x greater than that with Canada


4) Unlike 'potential' future Canadian trade, the significant trade with UK is real and present with up to 5 million EU workers dependant on it

Rusty_Shackleton

Conrad wrote: »

Look at the comments below the articles (these and other articles through the year warning of the boom in credit) and you see the tide of Remaoners basing their dire BREXIT RELATED warnings ON THE BOOM IN CREDIT articles (a sign people have run out of cash thanks to Brexit etc et)

With me so far...???

Now look at comments below the latest article warning about the slowing of consumer credit and guess what............. THIS TOO IS PINNED ON BREXIT

TAKE HOME POINT>>>> No matter what the event / story, they find a Brexit shaped cloud to fit. This demonstrates inconsistency and fuzzy thinking based on emotion and feelings as opposed to a sober assesment

You'll find the exact same thing on any newspaper - Everything will get linked to brexit in some way or another by a lot of people BTL. No doubt when there's anything positive in the economy the express comments section lights up with praise for brexit and proof that they're right!

The only conclusion to be drawn from this is that some people will twist anything they can to suit their agenda... which funnily enough is exactly what you're trying to do.

The accusation of remainers (do try to spell it right in the future, Conrad) basing things of emotion and feelings is a bit rich from a brexiter. Or are you forgetting the government having to admit that we never lost sovereignty, it just felt like we did?!

Conrad

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

A few vocal eurosceptics have dragged the country into their boring argument,

Wow, great point!

You are saying just a few Eurosceptics possessed an argument good enough to defeat the entire Establishment, Govt of the day, Obama, the Church and celebrity world.


How did you guys loose with all that fire power and the entire TV media onside?

Ok we had a handful of newspapers, but some of those only threw hat in ring at last moment and you had the Guardian, Observer, Mirror, Times and others on side.


Given the overwhelming odds on your side, why did your argument lose? In a re-run, Project Fear would be largely dismissed and the Govt this time would be batting for Leave.

Conrad

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Or are you forgetting the government having to admit that we never lost sovereignty, it just felt like we did?!

Ok so if we had full sovereignty all along, what's to miss, if as you imply we made all our own decisions anyway?


Before you say it, we will still love and live in Europe as we always did, as plenty of Kiwis and Aussies do right now, the French and Spanish will still welcome our self sufficient folk buying real estate and propping up local economies.

always_sunny

Conrad wrote: »

1) UK-EU trade is already free and fully aligned
2) Standards and rules already apply to both camps
3) EU trade with UK is 10 x greater than that with Canada
4) Unlike 'potential' future Canadian trade, the significant trade with UK is real and present with up to 5 million EU workers dependant on it

That's your view and that is fine, you cannot assume or impose that this view is okay with others if they don't agree.

Size is irrelevant otherwise by virtue of your argument, why should the USA prioritise the UK vs the EU for example?

Post Brexit things will need to be different, I see no reason to rush, I think it will be beneficial for both parties to have a long break in between.

Conrad

always_sunny wrote: »

That's your view and that is fine, you cannot assume or impose that this view is okay with others if they don't agree.

Size is irrelevant otherwise by virtue of your argument, why should the USA prioritise the UK vs the EU for example?

Dutch Govt report;

“There’s no reason at all to allow Britain to cherry pick ... but there’s also no reason to prevent Britain from receiving trade advantages,” given to other neighbouring countries, it said.

“Why would we offer nice deals for Ukraine and Turkey and not to Britain? I’m willing to fight for that,” Omtzigt said.

For the Netherlands, allowing Britain to crash out of the EU with no agreement in place would be “very undesirable” because of trade tariffs that would “without doubt damage the Dutch economy,” the report said.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-netherlands-idUKKBN16S17A?il=0

ukcarper

always_sunny wrote: »

You just need to read half page in this forum thread to conclude that, unless of course, you have very selective reading!

What a few posters on here might expect and what the government think are different things as I said you are just the opposite side of the same coin.

GreatApe

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Lets assume you're correct, those same people could get well and truly shafted by the removal of employment law protections, and if the economy does tank and unemployment rises, do you really think pay increases will be forthcoming? I mean, we're at full employment and wages are decreasing in real terms... something isn't right, and for it to be fixed by brexit it would have to eb something caused by the EU... before you blame the EU, perhaps look at Mays record as Home Sec with non-EU immigration.

UK wealth and wages are at an all time high

A_Medium_Size_Jock

From the earlier Brexit media briefing:

EU's Barnier says no 'decisive progress' in Brexit talks

No poop Sherlock!
Since the UK have not simply rolled over, that surely comes as no surprise to anybody.

“In July, the UK recognised that it has (financial) obligations beyond the Brexit date,” Barnier said. “But this week the UK explained that its obligations will be limited to their last payment to the EU budget before their departure.”

:rotfl: - Oh dear, those Eurocrats really just are not used to having "No" said to them are they?
The above from: http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-negotiations-idUKKCN1BB0TA

It comes after EU Brexit negotiators were left “flabbergasted” on Wednesday after their British counterparts launched a legal deconstruction of the so-called “Brexit bill” ...................... "There was total amazement,” the EU source said, “Everyone was completely flabbergasted that this young man from Whitehall was saying that the EU's preparation on the financial settlement was 'inadequate'. It did not go down well."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/31/brexit-bulldog-david-davis-hold-frosty-press-conference-eu-chief/

In other words this latest round of "negotiations" seems to have gone pretty much as expected.
575 days and counting Monsieur Barnier et d'autres marionettes de Merkel.
Tick tock.

always_sunny

Conrad wrote: »

Dutch Govt report;

“There’s no reason at all to allow Britain to cherry pick ... but there’s also no reason to prevent Britain from receiving trade advantages,” given to other neighbouring countries, it said.

“Why would we offer nice deals for Ukraine and Turkey and not to Britain? I’m willing to fight for that,” Omtzigt said.

For the Netherlands, allowing Britain to crash out of the EU with no agreement in place would be “very undesirable” because of trade tariffs that would “without doubt damage the Dutch economy,” the report said.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-netherlands-idUKKBN16S17A?il=0

You can keep posting these until you want but reality is different, for most of these links/articles there are equivalent saying the opposite.

Omtzigt can say what he wants in the same way as Boris Johnson said things that didn't turn to be true either.
Is the UK granting some advantages to EU workers over Americans or Japanese? What is the UK offering? So far the UK hasn't even managed to offer something substantial about current EU nationals!