Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

Sapphire

setmefree2 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/29/boris-johnson-favourite-among-tory-members-takeover-theresa/

To my mind, he is one of the few who has the charisma, the positivity and the overall knowledge of history and so on, to do the job – hence all the attacks on him from the left who very much fear him being made leader due to his popular appeal, which was most evident during his time as Mayor of London. They call him 'stupid' (and worse), even though it is patently obvious that this is not the case.

cogito

gfplux wrote: »

I am beginning to believe that you are right and this Tory Government will destroy the economy as they are so incompetent that they can not negotiate Britains withdrawal from the EU.
The EU is showing extraordinary restraint in the face of such incompetence and disrespect.
Under normal circumstances the EU should break of negotiations while the people on the other side of the table engage in a fist fight.
I suspect the EU have decided they can do nothing more but just to wait it out and run the clock down to March 2019.
Anyone who defends the British approach is letting their passion for Brexit cloud their judgement.
Just go back six months to the triggering of Article 50, would anyone imagine how badly the British Government would handle the negotiations.
Please MRS May stop Britain looking a fool. Negotiate withdrawal and then move on to striking a trade deal with the EU.

You can only actually negotiate with someone who is willing to show flexibility and willingness to reach an agreement. Fact is that the EU have not shown an ounce of flexibility and have not budged an inch from their position papers.

Calling the government incompetent and disrespectful in the face of such intransigence is bizarre. What is the UK supposed to do? Roll over and concede to every demand?

We had May's Florence speech last week in which she indicated that the UK were willing to reach a financial settlement as well as make concessions in other areas. How have Barnier and Juncker responded? With the usual waffle about being unrealistic and insufficient progress. In other words, we must surrender to their demands before moving on to the next phase.

We are not supplicants here. We are simply withdrawing from an organisation with which we have never been comfortable. If anyone is being disrespectful it is the EU who believe that they can kick us around like they did with the Greeks.

I have thought for some time that the negotiations are going nowhere and that we must soon clarify matters for businesses in the UK by allowing it to be known that there will be no deal and that they should prepare to trade on WTO terms. Juncker and co will then have to face some awkward questions from the 27 about how the hole in their budget will be filled.

It will be regrettable if no deal can be reached but the EU will itself have brought about this situation.

Herzlos

Sapphire wrote: »

To my mind, he is one of the few who has the charisma, the positivity and the overall knowledge of history and so on, to do the job – hence all the attacks on him from the left who very much fear him being made leader due to his popular appeal, which was most evident during his time as Mayor of London. They call him 'stupid' (and worse), even though it is patently obvious that this is not the case.

The left dislike hI'm because he's a vile human being and a national embarrassment he's a perfect tory though

Zero_Gravitas

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

An excellent example of the blinkered approach taken by some remainers - and totally wrong to boot.
"Unconditionally supporting anything that the Brexit camp have done." - :rotfl:
No; it is more that (strangely) you and others seem not to like alternatives to your pro-EU propaganda pointed out to you.
Just because alternative views are bought to your attention doesn't necessarily mean they are "unconditionally supported".

So what you are saying is that although you delight in finding these ever-more obscure links to sites that appear to support the idea that Brexit is a good idea, and never post any links to sites that support the idea that Brexit might be a bad thing, you don't in fact support the links to which you do post?

Frankly, that's just weird.

Unless what you're trying to tell us is that you coming round to the idea that Brexit will be a disaster for the majority in this country, and you're starting to try and position yourself as "The Medium-Sized Remainer" before it becomes clear that you were wrong...

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

You can only actually negotiate with someone who is willing to show flexibility and willingness to reach an agreement. Fact is that the EU have not shown an ounce of flexibility and have not budged an inch from their position papers.

Calling the government incompetent and disrespectful in the face of such intransigence is bizarre. What is the UK supposed to do? Roll over and concede to every demand?

We had May's Florence speech last week in which she indicated that the UK were willing to reach a financial settlement as well as make concessions in other areas. How have Barnier and Juncker responded? With the usual waffle about being unrealistic and insufficient progress. In other words, we must surrender to their demands before moving on to the next phase.

We are not supplicants here. We are simply withdrawing from an organisation with which we have never been comfortable. If anyone is being disrespectful it is the EU who believe that they can kick us around like they did with the Greeks.

I have thought for some time that the negotiations are going nowhere and that we must soon clarify matters for businesses in the UK by allowing it to be known that there will be no deal and that they should prepare to trade on WTO terms. Juncker and co will then have to face some awkward questions from the 27 about how the hole in their budget will be filled.

It will be regrettable if no deal can be reached but the EU will itself have brought about this situation.

There's always this false notion that negotiation means meeting in the middle but when one side is being unrealistic then that can't happen.

Once we skip this part of negotiations and start offering the stuff that's viable then concessions will be made on both sides.

Plus I don't think the EU is worried about the budget gap as we think they are. Any deal is going to involve us sending them some money, and the eu will adjust to the new budget pretty quickly. Probably more quickly than we'dadjust to trading on WTO terms. We're apparently willing to take a significant economic hit for philosophical reasons, so why won't the eu do the same?

posh*spice

cogito wrote: »

You can only actually negotiate with someone who is willing to show flexibility and willingness to reach an agreement. Fact is that the EU have not shown an ounce of flexibility and have not budged an inch from their position papers.

Calling the government incompetent and disrespectful in the face of such intransigence is bizarre. What is the UK supposed to do? Roll over and concede to every demand?

We had May's Florence speech last week in which she indicated that the UK were willing to reach a financial settlement as well as make concessions in other areas. How have Barnier and Juncker responded? With the usual waffle about being unrealistic and insufficient progress. In other words, we must surrender to their demands before moving on to the next phase.

We are not supplicants here. We are simply withdrawing from an organisation with which we have never been comfortable. If anyone is being disrespectful it is the EU who believe that they can kick us around like they did with the Greeks.

I have thought for some time that the negotiations are going nowhere and that we must soon clarify matters for businesses in the UK by allowing it to be known that there will be no deal and that they should prepare to trade on WTO terms. Juncker and co will then have to face some awkward questions from the 27 about how the hole in their budget will be filled.

It will be regrettable if no deal can be reached but the EU will itself have brought about this situation.

Totally agree.


Meanwhile Macron is turning Europe into a federal state; the United States of Europe, without ever asking a voter is that what they want. It really sucks. Call this democracy? It's completely backward.


So dumb/dangerous when it's so clear that thst is not what a large number of people want in all European countries.

posh*spice

By the way I was watching an interview with Spanish minister Alfonso Dastis on Sky, he was clear there will be a trade deal as he said it would be an act of self harm to Europe and Spain if there wasn't and he was clear that won't happen.

This is all posturing; trying to get as much money out of the UK as possible. The Tory's can't give in to it as it will be electoral dynamite. Already Henry Bolton has linked the £20 billion to cuts in the armed forces.

Zero_Gravitas

Fella wrote: »

Great post...... except it's not true.

If you'd care to back up what you say by listing my posts "criticising eveverything the EU and Remain supporters have said and done, whilst unconditionally supporting anything that the Brexit camp have done" then I'll agree with you. Otherwise I await the apology I'm sure you'll be big enough to provide.

Fella wrote: »

As usual when you ask somebody to back up what they're saying they go very
quiet. Funny that.

I'm terribly sorry, I had to go and interact with the real world for while, and didn't realise that it was necessary to post my itinerary on here prior to leaving the house.

Anyway, it took me about a minute to find this from you:

"The people I feel sorry for are the poor b*stards who's partner is a Remainer. It must have dawned on them now that they're stuck in that relationship for ever. If they try to dump their dreadful whiny partner they're going to spend years having to deal with angry messages on social media, tearful late-night phone-calls, unwanted bunches of flowers asking if they can give it another go, and all sorts of veiled threats about what'll happen in future if they dare to leave.

Not all Remainers are Stalkers, but all Stalkers voted Remain."

Unless, of course, what you were trying to say was that, like the (now) medium-sized remainer, you are trying to change your position, so you won't have to admit that you were wrong.

So I'm sorry but you will get no apology from me, I'm afraid.

Oh, and I'm just off out again for an hour or so, in case that's a problem for you.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

So what you are saying is that although you delight in finding these ever-more obscure links to sites that appear to support the idea that Brexit is a good idea, and never post any links to sites that support the idea that Brexit might be a bad thing, you don't in fact support the links to which you do post?

Frankly, that's just weird.

Unless what you're trying to tell us is that you coming round to the idea that Brexit will be a disaster for the majority in this country, and you're starting to try and position yourself as "The Medium-Sized Remainer" before it becomes clear that you were wrong...

Oh what a surprise - the tactic of a remainer who has no other argument and realises that they have no cogent grounds for sensible debate; resort to personal insult.
At least you have that in common with so many of your fellow remainers.

With "ever more obscure" you really are scraping the barrel and TBH making yourself look really foolish; well, here's yet another "obscure" report for you from the Irish Independent:
"Leprechaun economics pushes Ireland's EU bill up by €2bn"


http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/leprechaun-economics-pushes-irelands-eu-bill-up-by-2bn-36183349.html

That's before the EU's coffers suffer the loss of UK funding.
Perhaps you think the Irish will carry on enjoying sending the EU an ever-increasing wedge?

System

setmefree2 wrote: »

British Politics - Next Conservative Leader Betting Odds

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-conservative-leader

David Davis comes out as bookies favourite.

I'm not sure he'd want it?

You're joking right? It was a big deal he did an overnight stay in Brussels last week - I reckon he's scared to miss any of the political plotting going on in Whitehall.

He's cracking on a bit mind. Same age as Corbyn which increases the chances of another leadership change pre GE. Then again, Cable reckons he's up for it and he's 74 already.