Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

Moby

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/21/eu-brexit-negotiator-attacks-boris-johnson-old-fashioned-views-on-identity-european True Conrad. I agree there are too many people around and I agree other life is being pushed out as a result.... and being a wildlife lover I have a problem with that. Such issues cross national boundaries though and to have an impact you can't just stay in your own little corner muttering about what other states are doing. The Climate Change accord is a good example!

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mayonnaise wrote: »

By Diane James.
Ex-UKIP leader (for about 10 days).

Why seek to discredit the author; why not instead debate the content?

Are you trying to deny that more and more of Germany's gas comes from Russia as she says?
Or are you denying the proposed Nordstrom 2 - or that this will increase Germany's reliance on Russian gas?
Maybe you're denying this:

There is no doubt that Germany is the driving force behind the EU. It is the bloc’s industrial powerhouse and exporter, and also provides much of the monetary direction – rightfully so, as the largest contributor to the budget.

? ? ?

All seem perfectly factual and verifiable and further provide evidence that despite sanctions on Russia re: Ukraine etc., trade is increasing.
A lesson then in how effective sanctions really are.

Despite western economic sanctions imposed after Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014, EU exports to Russia grew 24.6 percent between January and May, driven by manufactured goods and machinery, while imports, composed principally of oil and gas, surged by 37.6 percent.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-oil/oil-up-2-percent-despite-u-s-crude-build-set-for-best-third-quarter-since-2004-idUSKCN1BT019

Conrad

Moby wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/21/eu-brexit-negotiator-attacks-boris-johnson-old-fashioned-views-on-identity-european True Conrad. I agree there are too many people around and I agree other life is being pushed out as a result.... and being a wildlife lover I have a problem with that. Such issues cross national boundaries though and to have an impact you can't just stay in your own little corner muttering about what other states are doing. The Climate Change accord is a good example!

I agree, wildlife everywhere is of the utmost importance, after all it may exist in these forms nowhere else in the Universe.

I have a big issue with well meaning 'great white missionary' types thinking they are compassionate Apostles for wanting every person on the Planet to have a western living standard. The Ocean borne plastic alone will be overwhelming. I don't personally think we have a shortage of Humans.


Prosperity drives down the birth rate, but by then the Planet will be spluttering its last gasps, I see little hope for Ocean life - just watching 1 days catch in Cadiz to include glorious great Swordfish and Tuna I couldn't help wondering how this madness can go on. I marvel at the sight of a Swordfish for sale but at the same time feel sadness that these magnificent beasts end up as Human poop the next day

Enterprise_1701C

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

To return to the thread topic - an Australian take on the German election and its effect upon the EU:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/greg-sheridan/europe-is-committing-suicide-and-merkel-is-its-death-knell/news-story/d0ae5de900b838af45a8eadaf038f8f3


Meanwhile Thai fishermen learn that dealing with the EU is costing them dearly:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1328535/fishermen-rise-against-eu-demands-for-tighter-controls

The Australian is paywalled:(

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The Australian is paywalled:(

Strange, it worked ok before.
Web search the title I quote ( Merkel may well be the chief agent of Europe’s demise. ) & you should get a readable one.
(I just tried & that works for me.)
Or alternatively, as it has I see been retitled: Angela Merkel signals ruin for Europe.

Conrad

How bizarre, I clicked off MSE and over to Guido and the very first thing I'm confronted with is Greens against immigration (thats me);


https://order-order.com/2017/09/21/uk-green-lobby-funded-anti-immigrant-multi-millionaire/


"UK Green Lobby Funded by ‘Anti-Immigrant Multi-Millionaire’"


Population control advocates are closely linked to wealthy American environmentalists; they believe that environmental problems stem from there being too many people on the planet.

GreatApe

Conrad wrote: »

What I see is my once small market down growing rapidly, housing being built all over and congestion becoming the daily grind. We had slow worms, grass snakes & other reptiles here, mostly gone in last 5 years as more Humans move in, causing wildlife corridor disruption and massive kill by cats. Ok this wont bother many but from my point of view we have more than enough Humans

Farmers say to me they are having to farm with ever more chemicals to keep up with increasing demand (Bee populations plummeting), as the land available for crops falls (here lots of former farmland sold off for housing etc), but hey, Hamish can see loads of green out the train window so we must have plenty of space..

Your just becoming a grumpy old man making crap up

I am middle of the road on this issue, migrants help us economically and despite your tales of lizards and lost fields they are not a net ecological harm

The only problem with migrants that I think is valid are those groups that are more prone to violence and theft than the locals. Migrants have to be better behaved than the locals to be accepted. I grant that on the whole they seem to have lower crime levels but we cant/dont look at the average migrant when crime or violence is a personal issue. There needs to be some way to stop badly behaved migrants coming in the first place how or if that is possible I dont know

GreatApe

ukcarper wrote: »

Have you got any figures to back that up

Which one in particular?

For power (eletricity) UK peak usage used to be close to 65GW now its closer to 50GW that means despite the uk population booming by 7-8 million on the decade we need 15GW fewer power stations to meet peak uk winter demands.

If you recall almost every year in the 2000s and even many of the 2010s there were news stories of how the uk was going to suffer blackouts. It didnt come to pass primarily becuase of old lights being replaced by CFLs/LEDs

As for overall electricity usage in the uk.

2006 was 397.3 TWh
2016 was 338.6 TWh

So while the uk population went up by 4.8 million during that period (and millions of homes and businesses were built) electricity usage went down 15%. That 60TWh annual usage fall on the decade is MASSIVE. By comparison the huge new dual reactor nuclear plant being built by EDF is not even going to produce half of that.

As for Nat Gas. UK consumption is down from over 90BCM to closer to 70BCM on the decade

Data available from BP statistical analysis for all countries

GreatApe

Conrad wrote: »

I agree, wildlife everywhere is of the utmost importance, after all it may exist in these forms nowhere else in the Universe.

I have a big issue with well meaning 'great white missionary' types thinking they are compassionate Apostles for wanting every person on the Planet to have a western living standard. The Ocean borne plastic alone will be overwhelming. I don't personally think we have a shortage of Humans.

Prosperity drives down the birth rate, but by then the Planet will be spluttering its last gasps, I see little hope for Ocean life - just watching 1 days catch in Cadiz to include glorious great Swordfish and Tuna I couldn't help wondering how this madness can go on. I marvel at the sight of a Swordfish for sale but at the same time feel sadness that these magnificent beasts end up as Human poop the next day

What dumb comments,

Animals, and even humans, are part of the food chain
We have just as much right to eat a swordfish as does a shark or microbes
If for some reason you want to try and maximise animal life on this planet then become a vegetarian

And humanity is earths greatest being, we have the power to save this planet and its life from guaranteed extinction. Humans will move earth itself further out into the solar system when the sun expands and extend life to other barren planets. Your lovely non human animal kingdom will turn to dust eventually without humanity

Herzlos

GreatApe wrote: »

It didnt come to pass primarily becuase of old lights being replaced by CFLs/LEDs

Exactly - useage of electronics is up, but power consumption is down hugely (like 100w bulbs that now draw 2w, improved white goods, TVs, laptops, etc), partially due to EU regulations.