Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

gfplux

Private_Church wrote: »

You will now post a nice piccy of a satelite view of the UK and say how we only develop a very small area of land and could easily put up with 100,000 + people moving to the South East every year..

What you fail to address time after time is the fact that no government actually plans and builds the infrastructure needed to accomodate these extra people. So what you propose is sticking 100,000+ people each year in high rise blocks,all living like battery hens.

Now unlike you I can give personal experience of living in the South East, trying to navigate on a daily basis around all the extra traffic we now have and transport wise its a complete nightmare.

The A259 is a joke , back in the 1960's we were suppose to get a "Dover to Honiton" road which would stretch from Kent to Devon but typically it never happend which backs up my post about how Governments of both colours have failed to develop the infrastructure needed for future growth. The A27 Road,another major arterial route is a complete nightmare as is the Dartford Crossing.Anyone who uses the Crossing on a regular basis will say the same.

But you feel free to continue to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the facts on the ground..

Something we can agree on.
I have often mentioned the lack of infrastructure outside of the South East. There is and has never been a serious long term plan to stem the tide of people of Britain let alone immigrants from moving to the South East of England.
These structural flaws should be addressed but I suspect not. They certainly are not getting attention at the moment as the Government hardly has time for anything but Brexit,

Private_Church

Conrad wrote: »

He might argue back that the issue is therefore not enough infrastructure, but be careful because even if we build EVEN MORE schools, roads and hospitals, it would not solve a thing, all would happen is even more people would be magnetically attracted to Britain.

He seems to have no sense of wonder and therefore hunks nothing of filling the land with noise fumes and Humanity.

Part of the issue is infrastructure but its obvious to everyone except the village idiot no Post war UK government has planned for the future infrastructure needed for the UK even without EU migration. This was the issue with Blairs Govt in 2004 when they opened the doors to eastern European migrants and told us 26,000 would come each year when in fact it was 200,000+.

Neither Hamish nor any pro EU poster can deny the stark reality of the infrastructure in the UK today. Its no good saying "well we will build 250,000 new homes and then build the require infrastructure.You do that before you build the houses and even then you need to take into account the the fact that people don't want to live in tower blocks or rabbit hutches but do want a quality of life..

Sometime I believe Hamish is just on the wind up.

setmefree2

Private_Church wrote: »

Sometime I believe Hamish is just on the wind up.

He lives in Scotland.

Let's be honest he really has no idea.

The average house costs £175k in Scotland, the average salary is £23k. Compare that to the SE average house price £350k - average salary £24k.

London £482k for a house- average salary £31.

http://www.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S5/SB_16-92_Earnings_in_Scotland_2016.pdf

Add in the fact that they get free prescriptions and student tuition.

A whole other world of few people and lots of land.

But he does like to talk down to the rest of us as if we're the village idiots.....

gfplux

ukcarper wrote: »

What do you mean by when the door closes, are you saying EU citizens will not be able to visit UK.

At the moment all we (those EU27) have to go on is a lot of hot air. However the leaked document to the Guardian about the new arrangements may mean some difficulties for EU citizens at the borders. That may just be long lines waiting to show a travel document or long lines waiting to prove the visit is only for a holiday.
Controlling your borders may mean a lot of things.
So between now and March 2019 my wife, a French citizen, for example, will be relaxed about visiting the UK but after March 2019 will wait to see what happens.
Frankly controlling millions of people is going to be a huge job and I wonder if Britain has the money and enough IT experts to get the system up and running in time.

Private_Church

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Wow...

So basically you're admitting that Britain is completely crap at everything to do with infrastructure and transport.

Lets take another example in the South east. Take a look at Ashford where developers have built thousands of new homes over the past 15-20 years or so. Along with the new houses they planned to build new schools ,Doctors surgeries etc but they built the houses and didn't build the schools and the local hospital (William Harvey) is bursting at the gunnels and can't cope,neither can the Doctors surgeries with the influx of thousands of new citizens. You tell me why didn't the planners force the developers to build the schools they promised?.

So bascially Hamish we can build infrastructure but developers bung the planners a few £ so they no longer have to build what they planned.. Won't even talk about the lack of affordable housing in the area but again we can point the fingers at developers gving "donations" to council planners.

Until Grenfall I didn't realise Developers can "buy off" Councils so they aren't forced to build affordable/social housing. Bung them a few £million and say that building affordable housing would render a development unviable and hey presto no Social housing built.. That is nothing short of a crime and developers and Councils should spend an eternity in hell for this crime and it goes on nationwide.

That we are so incredibly incompetent as a nation that we still haven't built the roads promised in the 1960's.

I agree totally but thats the issue with Governments only planning for the electorate cycle and not long term.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of our future prospects outside the largest single market in the world is it?

Outside of the single market we can dictate how many people from the EU we allow in the country. I say again we don't need many of the 65% or so of EU nationals who do low skilled jobs paying NMW ,paying zip all in tax but eligible for in work benefits......... Doesn't add up I'm afraid especially when one new agricultural weeding machine can do the job of 12 workers and far quicker.

I mean - if we can't even build a simple road from Kent to Dover in 50 years, how on earth are we supposed to take on the worlds largest economies who seem quite capable of such feats in very short periods of time?

Well lets take France as another example, easy to built motorways or millions of new homes (if required) when all you have is millions of acres of grassland and next to no existing towns or villages to worry about.

ukcarper

gfplux wrote: »

At the moment all we (those EU27) have to go on is a lot of hot air. However the leaked document to the Guardian about the new arrangements may mean some difficulties for EU citizens at the borders. That may just be long lines waiting to show a travel document or long lines waiting to prove the visit is only for a holiday.
Controlling your borders may mean a lot of things.
So between now and March 2019 my wife, a French citizen, for example, will be relaxed about visiting the UK but after March 2019 will wait to see what happens.
Frankly controlling millions of people is going to be a huge job and I wonder if Britain has the money and enough IT experts to get the system up and running in time.

It was easy enough to travel to Europe before we joined EU and I would say it's scaremongering to say it will be any different now.

ukcarper

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Perhaps you should venture down and see how congested the south east is especially inside the M25 where the housing problem is at it's worse.

gfplux

ukcarper wrote: »

It was easy enough to travel to Europe before we joined EU and I would say it's scaremongering to say it will be any different now.

I am talking about EU citizens and Brits arriving and departing Britain from March 2019. With the huge increase in checks unless there is a huge increase in personnel and a fancy new computer system up and running without glitches there is bound to be delays.
Frankly anyone who thinks the transition from "open borders" for EU nationals to stringent and detailed checks will be easy is being naive.

ukcarper

gfplux wrote: »

I am talking about EU citizens and Brits arriving and departing Britain from March 2019. With the huge increase in checks unless there is a huge increase in personnel and a fancy new computer system up and running without glitches there is bound to be delays.
Frankly anyone who thinks the transition from "open borders" for EU nationals to stringent and detailed checks will be easy is being naive.

It will be more difficult but not impossible and no different to non EU citizens now.

gfplux

ukcarper wrote: »

It will be more difficult but not impossible and no different to non EU citizens now.

That's my point. Ask any non EU citizen how mutch fun it is at Heathrow when they arrive. Now add the tens of thousands of EU citizens who presently just walk in!
As I say there needs a lot of resources thrown at it, if not visiting Britain as a tourist from the EU will not be funny.
Time will tell. As I said earlier. March 2019 is the cut off date.