Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

posh*spice

I like the bit were TB says something to the effect of "my report shows we need mass migration" ,

what like your dodgy dossier showed we needed to invade Iraq?

And was he suggesting we put up the minimum wage? Isn't that a pull factor for migrants?

I'm embarrassed for you tony.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

posh*spice wrote: »

I'm watching the Tony Blur interview right now . Am I missing something? He's not saying anything new, it's like he's stuck in early 2016.

Like some of the pro-EU remainers in these forums Tony B liar has an inflated opinion of himself, and as a result expects that opinion to be able to reverse a democratically decided vote.
Didn't you know that the only reason people voted to leave was because of immigration?
:doh:

A government minister says the former PM's proposal to get Brussels to curb freedom of movement has been tried and has failed.

http://news.sky.com/story/tony-blairs-bid-to-stop-brexit-with-tougher-immigration-rules-hopeless-11029040

I know there are those here so devoutly pro-EU that they will hear nothing said against their beloved union but fortunately it really does appear these are in an ever-decreasing minority.
An example?
My post yesterday of the "People's March For Europe" in this thread and the estimated 50,000 marchers; well I had to smile at HuffPost's report:

Hundreds gathered in central London on Saturday for a protest advocating an “exit from Brexit”.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/peoples-march-for-europe-london_uk_59b405a5e4b0354e44122a1b?utm_hp_ref=uk
"Hundreds".
Heh, so they thought 50k was a bit of an exaggeration too then.
Added to which is your astute earlier observation:

posh*spice wrote: »

Says alot when there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK - say what? They couldn't be bothered demonstrating.

Quite - and how many in London or within easy reach?

Queue the "But we don't have to agree!" and "We are allowed to disagree!" rejoinders.
I agree.
Wholeheartedly.
What I do not agree with is the determination to overturn a democratic vote.
The country decided to leave the EU and that is what we should do.

Moby

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/10/brexit-no-punishment-apart-from-inflicted-ourselves-barnier

The ridiculous thing is that there are enough problems in the British economy and British society without the added self-inflicted damage from Brexit – a first taste, of course, being the collapse of the pound, which has hit British holidaymakers forcibly this summer.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Moby wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/10/brexit-no-punishment-apart-from-inflicted-ourselves-barnier
"The ridiculous thing is that there are enough problems in the British economy and British society without the added self-inflicted damage from Brexit – a first taste, of course, being the collapse of the pound, which has hit British holidaymakers forcibly this summer. "

Yet another opinion piece from a neo-liberal author preparing his next book?
:rotfl:
Are you really so desperate?
*sigh*
Okay, since you seem to like opinion pieces see this:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/brexit-media-coverage-ignores-good-news-theres-lots/

gfplux

Rinoa wrote: »

It probably doesn't really matter how the talks were sequenced and, in the spitit of co-operation, David Davis agreed to the EU's time table. Possibly hoping this small compromise may smooth later negotiations.

Sadly he overlooked the EU's natural arrogance in making lists of demands and their 100% refusal to deviate from them.

The talks will almost certainly fail due to EU intransigence and regretfully your continued Luxembourg residency will be at the mercy of Brussels. Good luck.

If it helps, I hear Skegness beach is very bracing.

Sadly as you say Davis, "overlooked" the oppositions track record. Does that mean you agree he was under prepared.

I suspect the talks will fail...... to make anyone happy. I now feel that I am certainly NOT under the protection of the British Government and perhaps being at the mercy of Brussels is better than the protection of Britain.

As a Yufe I went to Skegness and had a great time.

Now back home, it was a pleasant drive through France as on Sundays most lorrys are banned from the motorways. The weather was cloudy with sunny periods.
Sorry, I did not mention the Brexit Crisis.

BobQ

vivatifosi wrote: »

He was on Andrew Marr this morning talking as though he was some great political messiah. He reckons he can sort things out and then we'll go for a second referendum.

Andrew Marr did point out that no political party will support this so he'd never get it through Parliament, but stopped short of calling him deluded.

The usual problem with Blair is that people do not listen to what he says, they just assume he is wrong because of history.

Blair was arguing that the Brexit problem is too important to just accept a referendum result that never considered the real impact of leaving. He may be wrong to argue this but he did win three elections and this country was in a much better state when he was PM than it is now.

He was arguing that the importance of the decision means all MPs should ask themselves if they should just follow the party line or should vote in accordance with their conscience. Most people seem to accept that Corbyn and May are hardly shining examples of statesmanship, Blair was however.

If it were just him arguing the case its easy to dismiss but consider this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-lord-gus-odonnell-chaos-cabinet-squabbling-rough-ride-a7843576.html

O’Donnell called for ministers to unite in backing a lengthy transition deal and “start being honest about the complexity of the challenge” after the UK leaves in 2019.
Writing in The Observer, he warned: “The EU has clear negotiating guidelines, while it appears that cabinet members haven’t yet finished negotiating with each other, never mind the EU.”

BobQ

kabayiri wrote: »

I doubt that....only because I don't think they ever had a strategy really.

A political strategy must by definition have some consideration for your electorate. If you don't have their support, you aint got a hill of beans.

Anyway, where was Mr Blair during the referendum campaign? He could have joined Remain team if he wanted.

Perhaps he was too busy saving the Middle East in his peace envoy role

I think Blair was silent because he realised that adding his voice would just have added to the Leave vote.

No party has had an immigration strategy for decades. Even now we do not have one. The fact is that our economy at present needs immigration for both skilled and unskilled work. The level of unemployment is low, so it follows we need to import people of working age. The indigenous workforce has a low birthrate meaning we need economic migration to fund pensions and services.

Of course if the electorate is to set the policy we must all accept unpicked fruit and vegetables, growing vacancies in hospitals, and other labour shortages. Obviously economic decline is an option and if that what people want so be it. Just because Blair says it does not make him wrong.

BobQ

Carl31 wrote: »

He's also saying his previous immigration strategy is no longer suitable for the UK

Nice one Tony , only about 15 years too late, glad you have caught up though. Meanwhile some have tried to do something about it

I do not agree that Blair or others had a strategy in the usually accepted sense of the word. Most Governments (Blair's included) allowed immigration to service the needs of the economy for labour.

BobQ

posh*spice wrote: »

I like the bit were TB says something to the effect of "my report shows we need mass migration" ,

what like your dodgy dossier showed we needed to invade Iraq?

And was he suggesting we put up the minimum wage? Isn't that a pull factor for migrants?

I'm embarrassed for you tony.

So unemployment is at its lowest for years and there is a shortage of skilled and unskilled workers.

Why on earth would you conclude we do not need economic migration? Is it the rise in birth rate we have had over the past 18 years that will solve the labour shortage? Or the highly skilled workfoce we have been training over the past decade?

If you think Blair is wrong fine but its nowt to do with a dodgy dossier

ETA Blair is not the only one saying this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/07/eu-immigrants-vital-uk-economy-cbi-warns/

European workers are crucial to the success of UK businesses and the wider economy, and the government must not shut off access to those staff, the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) has warned.
Britain should have an immigration system “based on need” rather than an arbitrary 100,000 target, said Carolyn Fairbairn, the business group’s director general.

mrginge

BobQ wrote: »

I do not agree that Blair or others had a strategy in the usually accepted sense of the word. Most Governments (Blair's included) allowed immigration to service the needs of the economy for labour.

It seems a bit odd to highlight the ability of previous governments to manipulate the immigration system to service the needs of the economy, when one's underlying view is that current and future governments do not (or should not) require the same ability.

Perhaps you have had an epiphany?