Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

Conrad

ilovehouses wrote: »

It's less freedom of movement; rather it's just movement. Everyone is more mobile and travel is easy and cheap.

Lets test your assertion;


Tell me about Japan being flooded with guns due to mass movement of people.

System

Conrad wrote: »

Lets test your assertion;

Tell me about Japan being flooded with guns due to mass movement of people.

Japan has some of the toughest gun laws in the world and they are rigorously enforced.

..and guess what; gun crime and shootings are almost unheard of.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

ilovehouses wrote: »

It's less freedom of movement; rather it's just movement. Everyone is more mobile and travel is easy and cheap.

Drivel.
The UK is joint-4th globally in terms of travel freedom to other countries (*1) and yet visas are necessary for 125 countries (*2).

Next: try telling the variety of Africans stuck in camps in Libya that travel is easy. Or the millions of Libyans and others in Turkish camps.
In fact you don't need to look that far - there are camps here in the UK as well as across Europe, aren't there?

It might be easy and cheap to travel but only to those places that will accept you.

*1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_British_citizens

*2 https://www.visahq.co.uk/visas.php

System

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Drivel.
The UK is joint-4th globally in terms of travel freedom to other countries (*1) and yet visas are necessary for 125 countries (*2).

EU FOM does make it easier to travel but it doesn't mean FOM causes gun trafficking. You're confusing correlation with causation.

Conrad's Japan intervention is ridiculous. Japan doesn't have gun crime nor FOM ergo one causes the other. It's silly - if I said the US doesn't have FOM with Eastern Europe but still has high gun crime and tried to use this as an argument you'd be on it straightaway.

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Next: try telling the variety of Africans stuck in camps in Libya that travel is easy. Or the millions of Libyans and others in Turkish camps.
In fact you don't need to look that far - there are camps here in the UK as well as across Europe, aren't there?

It might be easy and cheap to travel but only to those places that will accept you.

Another silly argument. Unfortunates sat in refugee camps isn't proof that travel isn't as cheap or as simple as it has ever been.

gfplux

We are in the middle of a long, long Brexit Crisis.

Moby

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/11/uk-sweet-brexit-deluded-eu-europe-single-economy So many of us are nostalgic for a past that has gone forever but our children will pay the price for our preoccupation with immigration as a reason for leaving the EU:- 'The first problem here is the term “single market”. Brexiteers and remainers alike seem to cling to a 19th-century notion of separate nations making their own products and trading them with other countries. The chief political project is then to lower or ideally abolish tariffs so that the so-called comparative advantages of free trade kick in. Last week chief EU negotiator Michel Barnier called this view “nostalgic”, and for good reason. The EU is rapidly evolving into something far more ambitious than just a free trade area: it is in the process of becoming one huge economic zone governed by a single set of rules and standards and overseen by a single European court of justice, striking trade deals with the rest of the world and deriving its logic and coherence from the four famous freedoms of goods, capital, services and labour. Products such as cars, computers or aeroplanes are now built from components made in factories and production units scattered across the EU, with employees moving seamlessly between them. For this reason “single economy” is a far better term than “single market”.

Conrad

Moby wrote: »

'The first problem here is the term “single market”. Brexiteers and remainers alike seem to cling to a 19th-century notion of separate nations making their own products and trading them with other countries. The chief political project is then to lower or ideally abolish tariffs so that the so-called comparative advantages of free trade kick in. Last week chief EU negotiator Michel Barnier called this view “nostalgic”, and for good reason.


The EU is rapidly evolving into something far more ambitious than just a free trade area:


it is in the process of becoming one huge economic zone governed by a single set of rules and standards and overseen by a single European court of justice, striking trade deals with the rest of the world and deriving its logic and coherence from the four famous freedoms of goods, capital, services and labour. Products such as cars, computers or aeroplanes are now built from components made in factories and production units scattered across the EU, with employees moving seamlessly between them. For this reason “single economy” is a far better term than “single market”.

Firstly our trade with EU wont be diminished as evidenced by plenty of calls from CORE EU export nations for a no-harm trade deal settlement.


Secondly the IMF predict 85% of growth over next 15 yrs will come from outside the EU.


Thirdly there is ample evidence of non EU prospering nations growing their trade with EU faster than has the UK.

Then there are new development in global trade to take account of, including;

WTO's new global trade deal comes into force – 23 February 2017.

WTO economists estimated it would cut the cost of trading by 14.3%, and that developing nations would gain the most.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39049074
+
British International Freight Association (BIFA) 23/02/17
On behalf of its members, the British International Freight Association (BIFA) has welcomed the entry into force of the WTO Trade Facilitation Agreement.

“If better border procedures and faster, smoother trade flows result from the agreement and help to revitalise global trade, BIFA members, which facilitate much of the UK’s visible trade, will benefit.”

http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/bifa-welcomes-entry-into-force-of-the-wto-trade-facilitation-agreement/

Moby

It's descending into an embarrassing farce. Our fellow Europeans think we are mad.....apart from the extremist loons......and there will be a backlash against all of us should this continue:- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/11/no-europeans-need-apply-growing-evidence-discrimination-uk-brexit

mrginge

Given the amount of bleating coming from you lot I'd say it's going swimmingly.

Conrad

Moby wrote: »

It's descending into an embarrassing farce. Our fellow Europeans think we are mad.....

I was only talking with mates at the weekend of this sentiment you keep expressing. The most grounded of them said this sentiment is shared only by a fringe gaggle of obsessives.

I was in Europe recently, and got only one slightly disparaging comment. Most Europeans I meet don't even think about Brexit


Try emerging from your echo chamber - there's a whole world out here and it's pretty positive


I guess Europeans adore Poland, Hungary, Czech-Rep and others not allowing in ANY refugees?