parking eye county court letter HELP

Redx

DeledtedUser wrote: »

in the process of writing my appeal.

would anyone be willing to give their opinion on it once its done?

its much too late to appeal, that ship sailed long ago

you actually appealed TWICE and were rejected BOTH TIMES , you dont get a third go at appealing , or a fourth or fifth either

as you have a court case, you are the DEFENDANT and are writing your DEFENCE !

yes, you can post a working draft on here for perusal

do not put any personal details or reference numbers in it yet, leave those until the draft if finalised and ready for submission

[Deleted User]

if im being honest i have realised why i have never worked in law! have spent hours reading all the info on here...slighty brain dead and way out of my depth. dont know where to start.

[Deleted User]

finding this very difficult....am i the only one!!:(
in my mind my grounds for my defence are;
*signage was poor.
*parking there with purpose-doing my job. no alternative. was an urgent home visit
*patient i visited speaks very minimal english. therefore unable to get accurate parking advice but also unable to ask them to write statement on my behalf
* due to the rules im bound by at work (NMC) i am bound by patient confidentiality-therefore unable to disclose patient details, or contact landlord
*i offered to get a statement from my manager supporting my reason for visiting but this was rejected.
* i was only out of my car for 15mins-the further 14 minutes i was sitting in the car trying to call to find out where i could park!
i am not usually an idiot but really feel it whilst reading this, you are all clearly a very knowledgable brainy bunch of people!

Redx

most (or all) of the above goes into your witness statement , along with any evidence , when you write to your local court a lot further down the line

for now , you are working on a legal defence , using legal points as to why you are not liable for the charge

this includes signage , contracts , grace periods , and other legal arguments , that usually apply in any defence , so very little of "what happened" will feature in your DEFENCE

the "what happened and why" , MAY feature in any witness statement later on

the defence is not concerned about "what happened on the day , ie:- your "story"

a judge needs to look at the legal points in your defence , plus their POC and decide if the claim should be struck out or referred to a local court and judge

this initial judge wont care about "what happened"

the later judge allocated the job will expect evidence and statements at or after the DQ stages , so MAY take into account what you wrote above (read BARGEPOLES timeline of events)

now PLEASE read about a dozen legal defences on here already written by people further down the track than you, get the gist of the LEGAL points they have included , and start your own draft defence and post it on here

NOBODY will do this for you, as volunteers we dont get paid enough

but as you would be copying and pasting various defence paragraphs from already written defences, how hard can it be ?

its read, copy , paste , number , check , post , look for replies and critique that comes back and tweak accordingly

Coupon-mad

DeledtedUser wrote: »

i was issued a ticket for parking in a 15 minute bay for 28minutes


finding this very difficult....am i the only one!!:(
in my mind my grounds for my defence are;
*signage was poor.
*parking there with purpose-doing my job. no alternative. was an urgent home visit
*patient i visited speaks very minimal english. therefore unable to get accurate parking advice but also unable to ask them to write statement on my behalf
* due to the rules im bound by at work (NMC) i am bound by patient confidentiality-therefore unable to disclose patient details, or contact landlord
*i offered to get a statement from my manager supporting my reason for visiting but this was rejected.
* i was only out of my car for 15mins-the further 14 minutes i was sitting in the car trying to call to find out where i could park!
i am not usually an idiot but really feel it whilst reading this, you are all clearly a very knowledgable brainy bunch of people!

You need to read the example defences in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

You are not the only one who thinks they are writing the story of what happened - you are not. We are not expecting you to write it from scratch.

You should be copying one written here before because the win rate (for posters who stick around and get advice also on their later Witness Statement and evidence and in preparing for their hearing) is successful 99% of the time.

Only ONE case was reported as lost, in the past year, where the posters got forum assistance right up to the hearing.

Copy the style and some wording from a defence linked in the NEWBIES thread post #2 (only post #2, ONLY read defences). Show us your defence. And yes, it can include the information above but write it in the third person with numbered paragraphs, e.g. part of it will be:

The Defendant only left the car for 15 minutes in fact - the further 14 minutes was sitting in the car trying to call the patient to find out where to park, and also unloading and then loading my bag/equipment for the brief patient visit.


I am deliberately talking about 'loading/unloading' here, rather than parking, because you can then use the Jopson case to show you were not in contravention of the parking terms and were relying upon the rights of way enjoyed by the patient you were visiting, who is entitled for a nurse to visit and be exempted, otherwise life in a block/estate would be unworkable.

Have a look at the ''own space'' defence written by Johnersh, it's one of the first ones linked in post #2 of the sticky thread. Adapt that one as I think it uses the Jopson Appeal case, which you will be using in evidence later.

[Deleted User]

ok. im back with a fresh set of eyes to get my defence written today.
I just drove down to the area that i parked to check signage. it says "pick up/drop off area only. 15 minutes waiting time." incredibly the amount of tiny writing at the bottom of the sign is unbelievable-i have good vision and struggle to read it!
I also e mailed my local MP who has just replied and says he agrees my fine is unfair so has offered to write me a supporting letter. who knows if it will help but worth a try!

Coupon-mad

Great, now show us your defence, based on Johnersh's one in the NEWBIES thread about ''own space'' cases (I know you don't own the space but the arguments can be similar for an authorised visitor).

Here's one I wrote this week, using Johnersh's style and some of his words:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=107768&st=80&p=1311428&#entry1311428

See, start with one someone else has written, grab the entire thing then work your way through, deleting or changing the facts. I already gave you a few words about mentioning unloading & loading your bags & equipment, to try to tally your case with Jopson (which is in that link).

[Deleted User]

well i think we can safely say i am awful at this!! ive just found online i could have paid someone £19 to write it for me but guess that would be lazy now.!!
here is my VERY rough 1st draft.

Claim Number: ___
Between:
Parking Eye Ltd v ___

Defence Statement
I am ___, the defendant in this matter and registered keeper of vehicle ___. I currently reside at ____.
I deny I am liable for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

1. The Claim Form issued on the ____ by Civil Enforcement Limited was not
correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Parking Eye Legal Department”.

2. This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

3. Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

(i) A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)
(ii) How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)
(III) Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter
(v) If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed
(vi) If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed


5. The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 'legal representative’s (or even admin) costs' were incurred. I deny the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever.!

6. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr. Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

6. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.

7) The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.

8) In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.!



9) No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
It is believed Parking Eye do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

10) No legitimate interest - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
This Claimant files serial claims regarding sites where they have lost the contract, known as revenge claims and it believed this is one such case. This is not a legitimate reason to pursue a charge out of proportion with any loss or damages the true landowner could pursue.

11) If a driver is parking with your permission, they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the contract with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract. The British Parking Association supports this in its Code of Practice. I dispute that I was given a reasonable amount of time and the time given was arbitrary.
i) The Defendant only left the car for 15 minutes in fact - the further 14 minutes was sitting in the car trying to call the patient to find out where to park, and also unloading and then loading my bag/equipment for the brief patient visit.

12) Parking Eye have used ANPR to monitor stay lengths in car parks. Whilst effective at monitoring the time between observation of registration plates I believe ANPR is flawed for monitoring the length of time a car was parked for. The ANPR cameras are parked at the entrance and exit of the car park, recording when a car passed it. No photographic evidence appears to be available for the period inbetween there recordings .

13) Please allow me to draw to your attention Frustration of contract. This is where there is an event outside the control of the defendant which could not be reasonably foreseen and as a result they could not exit the car park within the limit. A contract may be discharged by frustration. A contract may be frustrated where there exists a change in circumstances, after the contract was made, which is not the fault of either of the parties, which renders the contract either impossible to perform or deprives the contract of its commercial purpose. I could not have foreseen the event of a patients urgent healthcare need.

I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

Signed
Date

Redx

you dont appear to have proof read the above, because TWO private parking companies are listed, but you are only dealing with ONE ppc

this is a simple rookie mistake and I am sure you can do better

please edit the above and fix all issues, including ppc names

I do hope you got pictures of those appalling signs too ?

[Deleted User]

yes i have pictures-even using zoom its hard to read!
any better?

Claim Number: ___
Between:
Parking Eye Ltd v ___

Defence Statement
I am ___, the defendant in this matter and registered keeper of vehicle ___. I currently reside at ____.
I deny I am liable for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

1) The Claim Form issued on the ____ by Parking Eye was not
correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Parking Eye Legal Department”.

2) This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

3) Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

(i) A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)
(ii) How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)
(III) Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in
this matter
(iv) If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed
(v) If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

4) The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 'legal representative’s (or even admin) costs' were incurred. I deny the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever.

5) This case can be distinguished from Parking Eye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr. Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

6) In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.

7) The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.

8) In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.



9) No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
It is believed Parking Eye do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

10) No legitimate interest - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
This Claimant files serial claims regarding sites where they have lost the contract, known as revenge claims and it believed this is one such case. This is not a legitimate reason to pursue a charge out of proportion with any loss or damages the true landowner could pursue.

11) If a driver is parking with your permission, they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the contract with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract. The British Parking Association supports this in its Code of Practice. I dispute that I was given a reasonable amount of time and the time given was arbitrary.
i) The Defendant only left the car for 15 minutes in fact - the further 14 minutes was sitting in the car trying to call the patient to find out where to park, and also unloading and then loading my bag/equipment for the brief patient visit.

12) Parking Eye used ANPR to monitor stay lengths the car park. Whilst effective at monitoring the time between observation of registration plates I believe ANPR is flawed for monitoring the length of time a car was parked for. The ANPR cameras are parked at the entrance and exit of the car park, recording when a car passed it. No photographic evidence appears to be available for the period inbetween their recordings .

13) Please allow me to draw to your attention Frustration of contract. This is where there is an event outside the control of the defendant which could not be reasonably foreseen and as a result they could not exit the car park within the limit. A contract may be discharged by frustration. A contract may be frustrated where there exists a change in circumstances, after the contract was made, which is not the fault of either of the parties, which renders the contract either impossible to perform or deprives the contract of its commercial purpose. I could not have foreseen the event of a patients urgent healthcare need.

I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

Signed
Date