Land Registry questions

Land_Registry

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

@Land_Registry

Good morning, I am hoping you can help with a long-running saga that may now be ending.

A property was originally held as Tenants in Common between four people. One sole proprietor survived, but the Form A restriction remained. It was unclear for quite some time if they had actually inherited the property from the original tenants due to lack of paperwork. The various wills confirming the inheritance and succession have now all been found, and confirm they did eventually inherit 100% and were entitled to the entire beneficial interest. 

The last survivor has now passed away and we are dealing with the estate as executors. The property will be sold and proceeds distributed to the beneficiaries.

Do we need to apply to remove this Form A restriction now, before the property is sold? Or is it something that will be routinely dealt with during conveyancing? We do not want to transfer ownership before sale and probate has not yet been granted.

We would like to help the eventual sale proceed as smoothly as possible, so if this will be a sticking point, we would like to fix it first. 

Thank you.

We register the legal ownership so if there were 4 registered owners, and 3 died, the legal ownership will have passed to the surviving sole owner. 
The TIC aspect you refer to is normally protected by way of a form A restriction on the register and that restricts a sole owner only
On the death of the last surviving owner probate will be required to enable his/her executor to then deal with the property as it forms part of his/her estate.
There's no need to apply to cancel the form A restriction prior to the sale as it will fall automatically when the buyer is registered providing either the probate names 2 or more executors/personal representatives OR if there is only one then he/she appoints someone else to act as co-trustee to then transfer (sell) the title.
Something to consider once probate has been obtained and to discuss with your conveyancer 

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thank you, that is very helpful. 

There is only one executor named in the will (my relative, I am helping them with admin only, and not able to undertake official duties). The will does specify someone else should my relative relinquish being executor, but I don’t know if they could act as co-executor at the same time.

It may be easier for them to appoint a co-trustee when the time to sell is here.

As long as we don’t have to cancel the restriction as this point, that is good news, so thank you again. 

Land_Registry

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

Thank you, that is very helpful. 

There is only one executor named in the will (my relative, I am helping them with admin only, and not able to undertake official duties). The will does specify someone else should my relative relinquish being executor, but I don’t know if they could act as co-executor at the same time.

It may be easier for them to appoint a co-trustee when the time to sell is here.

As long as we don’t have to cancel the restriction as this point, that is good news, so thank you again. 

Anyone can be the co-trustee although I guess most will look for someone who might be already involved/aware in some capacity. 
But from a purely registration point of view provided there are two or more people taking receipt of the capital monies (purchase price) then that should be ok. 
They then both have responsibility for ensuring the monies are divided as appropriate based on the beneficial ownerships involved and protected by the form A restriction/trust/wills that exist

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thank you, that is extremely helpful 🙂

jdp_FTB87

It is coming up to 6 months since our offer was accepted. We are FTBs. The chain ends with the seller’s purchase. In August we were told that the garage in their purchase is registered to a number of owners. Our sellers said they were working to transfer ownership of the garage from those owners. The latest update we’ve received is that the contents of the transfer deed have been approved by our sellers and their sellers. The solicitor for our seller’s seller has said they are now waiting on the signed TR1 and ID1 forms from the owners of the garage.

Just trying to get a sense of how long this could take. Is it safe to assume that the transfer has already been discussed with the garage owners without objection? It seems a lot of work has gone into creating the transfer deed, so I can’t imagine the TR1 and ID1 forms would have been sent to the owners without some prior discussion.

Secondly, could the transaction proceed to exchange once the TR1 and ID1 forms are complete? Or would we then need to wait for registration at the Land Registry?

We’re growing concerned as our mortgage offer expires in December.

Land_Registry

jdp_FTB87 said:

It is coming up to 6 months since our offer was accepted. We are FTBs. The chain ends with the seller’s purchase. In August we were told that the garage in their purchase is registered to a number of owners. Our sellers said they were working to transfer ownership of the garage from those owners. The latest update we’ve received is that the contents of the transfer deed have been approved by our sellers and their sellers. The solicitor for our seller’s seller has said they are now waiting on the signed TR1 and ID1 forms from the owners of the garage.

Just trying to get a sense of how long this could take. Is it safe to assume that the transfer has already been discussed with the garage owners without objection? It seems a lot of work has gone into creating the transfer deed, so I can’t imagine the TR1 and ID1 forms would have been sent to the owners without some prior discussion.

Secondly, could the transaction proceed to exchange once the TR1 and ID1 forms are complete? Or would we then need to wait for registration at the Land Registry?

We’re growing concerned as our mortgage offer expires in December.

Simple answer is Yes but we don't deal with exchange but primarily deal with post-completion so the registration of the outcomes.
It will be the buyer's conveyancer and most likely their lender who decide on when exchange and then completion can happen.
A lender ultimately decides and that's related to the mortgage product involved and the 'risk' profile involved. For example it may want all the ducks in a row before they say Yes to exchange or the risk profile maybe less and they can say Yes ahead of time.
If it has to be completed before anyone says Yes then they should submit first and then request expedition to give it it's best chance of being registered quickly. Everything though then depends on it being in order of course
Request an expedite - GOV.UK

jdp_FTB87

Land_Registry said:

jdp_FTB87 said:

It is coming up to 6 months since our offer was accepted. We are FTBs. The chain ends with the seller’s purchase. In August we were told that the garage in their purchase is registered to a number of owners. Our sellers said they were working to transfer ownership of the garage from those owners. The latest update we’ve received is that the contents of the transfer deed have been approved by our sellers and their sellers. The solicitor for our seller’s seller has said they are now waiting on the signed TR1 and ID1 forms from the owners of the garage.

Just trying to get a sense of how long this could take. Is it safe to assume that the transfer has already been discussed with the garage owners without objection? It seems a lot of work has gone into creating the transfer deed, so I can’t imagine the TR1 and ID1 forms would have been sent to the owners without some prior discussion.

Secondly, could the transaction proceed to exchange once the TR1 and ID1 forms are complete? Or would we then need to wait for registration at the Land Registry?

We’re growing concerned as our mortgage offer expires in December.

Simple answer is Yes but we don;t deal with exchange but primarily deal with post-completion so the registration of the outcomes.
It will be the buyer's conveyancer and most likely their lender who decide on when exchange and then completion can happen.
A lender ultimately decides and that's related to the mortgage product involved and the 'risk' profile involved. For example it may want all the ducks in a row before they say Yes to exchange or the risk profile maybe less and they can say Yes ahead of time.
If it has to be completed before anyone says Yes then they should submit first and then request expedition to give it it's best chance of being registered quickly. Everything though then depends on it being in order of course

Thank you for the quick reply, that’s very helpful.

I appreciate that you probably can’t say with any certainty without the full details, but in a transfer like this would you normally expect the transferor to have been consulted prior to being sent the TR1? I’m just wondering whether it’s a case of them formalising something that has already been agreed, or whether the TR1 is the start of the conversation for them.

Land_Registry

jdp_FTB87 said:

Land_Registry said:

jdp_FTB87 said:

It is coming up to 6 months since our offer was accepted. We are FTBs. The chain ends with the seller’s purchase. In August we were told that the garage in their purchase is registered to a number of owners. Our sellers said they were working to transfer ownership of the garage from those owners. The latest update we’ve received is that the contents of the transfer deed have been approved by our sellers and their sellers. The solicitor for our seller’s seller has said they are now waiting on the signed TR1 and ID1 forms from the owners of the garage.

Just trying to get a sense of how long this could take. Is it safe to assume that the transfer has already been discussed with the garage owners without objection? It seems a lot of work has gone into creating the transfer deed, so I can’t imagine the TR1 and ID1 forms would have been sent to the owners without some prior discussion.

Secondly, could the transaction proceed to exchange once the TR1 and ID1 forms are complete? Or would we then need to wait for registration at the Land Registry?

We’re growing concerned as our mortgage offer expires in December.

Simple answer is Yes but we don;t deal with exchange but primarily deal with post-completion so the registration of the outcomes.
It will be the buyer's conveyancer and most likely their lender who decide on when exchange and then completion can happen.
A lender ultimately decides and that's related to the mortgage product involved and the 'risk' profile involved. For example it may want all the ducks in a row before they say Yes to exchange or the risk profile maybe less and they can say Yes ahead of time.
If it has to be completed before anyone says Yes then they should submit first and then request expedition to give it it's best chance of being registered quickly. Everything though then depends on it being in order of course

Thank you for the quick reply, that’s very helpful.

I appreciate that you probably can’t say with any certainty without the full details, but in a transfer like this would you normally expect the transferor to have been consulted prior to being sent the TR1? I’m just wondering whether it’s a case of them formalising something that has already been agreed, or whether the TR1 is the start of the conversation for them.

As you say not our area of expertise but it would seem logical to notify those involved at an early stage to prep them for what comes next/is required of them inc the Transfer deed and it's preparation and execution etc 
The Transfer is really the end of the conversation as once all signed/witnessed and dated then next stop is us

bazzyb

Please can I get clarification on what is the longest time currently to process an application for first registration?

We completed in January 2022 so some 33 months ago and are still waiting. Our conveyancers seem useless and just state that the application has been lodged with HM Land Registry. 

Estimates on website suggest 17 months for first registration so I’m struggling to understand how/why it is taking double that for us. 

Land_Registry

bazzyb said:

Please can I get clarification on what is the longest time currently to process an application for first registration?

We completed in January 2022 so some 33 months ago and are still waiting. Our conveyancers seem useless and just state that the application has been lodged with HM Land Registry. 

Estimates on website suggest 17 months for first registration so I’m struggling to understand how/why it is taking double that for us. 

There's no such 'longest' time as each and every application for first registration will wait X months before being processed and then perhaps longer depending on merit if things are not in order, more information is needed etc etc
33 months since completion seems like a very long time though and make me wonder if perhaps the first application might have failed and had to be resubmitted but without specific details I can't be definitive on that point either.
DM me the specific details inc postal address and title number (if known) and I can check and advise what's happened at our end