Land Registry questions

bazzyb

Land_Registry said:

bazzyb said:

Please can I get clarification on what is the longest time currently to process an application for first registration?

We completed in January 2022 so some 33 months ago and are still waiting. Our conveyancers seem useless and just state that the application has been lodged with HM Land Registry. 

Estimates on website suggest 17 months for first registration so I’m struggling to understand how/why it is taking double that for us. 

There's no such 'longest' time as each and every application for first registration will wait X months before being processed and then perhaps longer depending on merit if things are not in order, more information is needed etc etc
33 months since completion seems like a very long time though and make me wonder if perhaps the first application might have failed and had to be resubmitted but without specific details I can't be definitive on that point either.
DM me the specific details inc postal address and title number (if known) and I can check and advise what's happened at our end 

Thank you, I’ve sent a DM with further details. 

ruralbliss

Change of ownership / trustee question which I'm struggling to get a consensus about

Wife A and husband B owned a house as tenants in common.
Wife A passed away in 2006 and in her will gave the house to trustees husband B and her son C, with husband B having the right to live in the house.  No change to the Land Registry was made.
Son C passed away in 2017 and his estate was inherited by his wife D.
B passed away in 2024 and in his will left his share of the house to trustee E.

D and E now want to update the land registry to sell the house. 
Is it enough for the two of them to be named or do they need a co-trustee each? 
If they need a co-trustee each, can it be the same person in both instances (to give 3 trustees in total)?

Land_Registry

The key thigs to consider re the property and the legal ownership, which we register, are as follows
A & B are the registered legal owners. When A died that legal ownership passed to B. When B died the property forms part of B's estate so probate is then needed to enable B's executor/personal rep to then deal with/sell the property as required.
The trust/TIC arrangements relate to the beneficial ownerships so whilst they have to be considered/understood and dealt with also they have no impact on the registered legal ownership as explained and the sale.
I imagine that the register refers to a form A restriction to protect the trust/TIC aspect. If it does then that will 'bite' and need to be complied with if there is a sole executor/personal rep for B. However if there are 2 or more executors/personal reps for B then it does not bite and they can sell (transfer) the legal ownership
You don't say whether D & E are those executors/personal reps so that's the bit you appear to need to establish before deciding what's then needed

icampbell81

I wonder if I could get an idea of the likely processing time for an adverse posession registration application please? I have looked through the posts but I'm still confused. The application was requested to be expedited and the survey was done last month so presumably the process has now started. The title number is cl385823. Thanks

Land_Registry

icampbell81 said:

I wonder if I could get an idea of the likely processing time for an adverse posession registration application please? I have looked through the posts but I'm still confused. The application was requested to be expedited and the survey was done last month so presumably the process has now started. The title number is cl385823. Thanks

The application is still with us and is currently going through the third, and hopefully final, stage re wider checks. Those checks involve contacting adjoining/affected owners to see if they consent/object. In this case they have until the 11th November to respond. 
Expedition gets an application to the processing start line quickly. It doesn't mean it will be completed quickly or within 10 days (timescale re expedition quoted) as it's not a 'magic wand' and the registration requirements still have to be met
The 3 key stages re 'adverse possession' are 1. Consideration of the 'facts' as presented 2. Site visit/survey to see if the reality on the ground matches those facts and 3. wider checks as appropriate and as mentioned
Expedition gets it to stage 1 but stages 2 and 3 can't be expedited as we are reliant on Ordnance Survey and then recipients of such checks and can't hasten/fast-track those two stages
The process/stages are explained in our PGs 4 and 5 and if you are using a conveyancer then they should be able to confirm also - Land registration: Practice guides - GOV.UK
I mention the following simply for general understanding and to help manage anyone else's 'confusion' if they are int he following scenario. I have no idea as to your own scenario and the application may have arisen for some other urgent reason
One of the biggest 'frustrations' re timescales for such applications tends to be that they arise late in the selling/buying stage of the conveyancing process. Often when the chain is gearing up to exchange/completion and then someone discovers the land/property being sold doesn't actually match the registered extent. And as such an application for adverse possession is needed to resolve matters.
Expedition is then requested as nobody wants to adjust their plans re exchange/completion and moving etc etc but such applications will often take 8-10 weeks to complete through the 3 stages even with expedition 

ruralbliss

Land_Registry said:

The key thigs to consider re the property and the legal ownership, which we register, are as follows
A & B are the registered legal owners. When A died that legal ownership passed to B. When B died the property forms part of B's estate so probate is then needed to enable B's executor/personal rep to then deal with/sell the property as required.
The trust/TIC arrangements relate to the beneficial ownerships so whilst they have to be considered/understood and dealt with also they have no impact on the registered legal ownership as explained and the sale.
I imagine that the register refers to a form A restriction to protect the trust/TIC aspect. If it does then that will 'bite' and need to be complied with if there is a sole executor/personal rep for B. However if there are 2 or more executors/personal reps for B then it does not bite and they can sell (transfer) the legal ownership
You don;t say whether D & E are those executors/personal reps so that's the bit you appear to need to establish before deciding what's then needed

Thank you, much appreciated and seems so logical when you phrase it like that!

E is the sole executor for B.  [D is the sole executor for C.] 
Yes, the register refers to a form A restriction.
Would you be able to expand on how E can comply with the form A restriction?  (perhaps appointing a second trustee? but this is where I get a bit lost...)
And am I right in thinking E can't cancel the form A restriction because they aren't the sole beneficiary?

Land_Registry

ruralbliss said:

Land_Registry said:

The key thigs to consider re the property and the legal ownership, which we register, are as follows
A & B are the registered legal owners. When A died that legal ownership passed to B. When B died the property forms part of B's estate so probate is then needed to enable B's executor/personal rep to then deal with/sell the property as required.
The trust/TIC arrangements relate to the beneficial ownerships so whilst they have to be considered/understood and dealt with also they have no impact on the registered legal ownership as explained and the sale.
I imagine that the register refers to a form A restriction to protect the trust/TIC aspect. If it does then that will 'bite' and need to be complied with if there is a sole executor/personal rep for B. However if there are 2 or more executors/personal reps for B then it does not bite and they can sell (transfer) the legal ownership
You don;t say whether D & E are those executors/personal reps so that's the bit you appear to need to establish before deciding what's then needed

Thank you, much appreciated and seems so logical when you phrase it like that!

E is the sole executor for B.  [D is the sole executor for C.] 
Yes, the register refers to a form A restriction.
Would you be able to expand on how E can comply with the form A restriction?  (perhaps appointing a second trustee? but this is where I get a bit lost...)
And am I right in thinking E can't cancel the form A restriction because they aren't the sole beneficiary?

The easiest way to not get lost is to separate out the legal and beneficial ownerships and deal with them separately.
The legal ownership passed to B on the death of A. 
When B then died it formed part of B's estate and it is therefore B's executor who is legally authorised to deal with (sell) the property
The beneficial ownership is where the complexity comes in but it's 'simple' on the register as that's protected by the form A restriction. 
As E is B's sole executor E is caught by the restriction so can't sell on own and will have to appoint a co-trustee to act with them in the Transfer
E can't cancel the form A as E is not the sole legal and beneficial owner and from what you have shared the trust created has not come to an end. Others have a beneficial interest.

Stewie30

Hello @Land_Registry, I am in the middle of a house purchase which has been dragging on for months due to our seller's solicitor's initial unwillingness to submit a first registration. Now that they say it has been submitted, I'm wondering if it is possible to check if they have expedited it as requested by our solicitor on the 23rd of September. I'm aware our delays are due to our seller's solicitor rather than land registry, however since I am unable to get any reliable communication from them I wondered if you could help please. Any indication of when this might be completed would a huge help. Thank you.

Land_Registry

Stewie30 said:

Hello @Land_Registry, I am in the middle of a house purchase which has been dragging on for months due to our seller's solicitor's initial unwillingness to submit a first registration. Now that they say it has been submitted, I'm wondering if it is possible to check if they have expedited it as requested by our solicitor on the 23rd of September. I'm aware our delays are due to our seller's solicitor rather than land registry, however since I am unable to get any reliable communication from them I wondered if you could help please. Any indication of when this might be completed would a huge help. Thank you.

The conveyancers involved can check to confirm if expedited. But if you have the title number or postal address then happy to check and confirm for you

Croccy22

Hi,

Could I please get an update on Application Reference: ICBC98C

It was expedited and accepted by Land Registry but still nothing appears to have happened and we are getting desperate to get this resolved as it is causing us and our buyers financial pressures.

Thanks, Matt.