Land Registry questions

Land_Registry

shiraz99 said:

Hi @Land_Registry can you clarify what the process is involved with the following please?

I've inherited a property along with two siblings and the property is not currently registered with LR. I plan to "buy out", the other siblings of their equal shares. What is the process of transferring the property from the estate to myself, does it need to be transferred to all three of us first then their shares transferred to me on payment of their share, or is there a single process where they relinquish their share on payment and the property as a whole is transferred from the estate to myself?

Also there's the matter of when the property is registered and to whom and what sort of time scales does this thing typically take?

looks like we were posting at the same time on your original thread so here's my post again 

As far as the transfer of ownership goes then No re two transfers to get to the end result agreed to.
Use our online assisted guidance once you have checked and confirmed how the property is registered and how
Any Qs re tax/sdlt etc then contact/check with HMRC

And your additional Q re the final sentence - the Transfer from the estate to you will make it a compulsory first registration. And current wait times re a first registration are on average round 14+ months

shiraz99

Land_Registry said:

shiraz99 said:

Hi @Land_Registry can you clarify what the process is involved with the following please?

I've inherited a property along with two siblings and the property is not currently registered with LR. I plan to "buy out", the other siblings of their equal shares. What is the process of transferring the property from the estate to myself, does it need to be transferred to all three of us first then their shares transferred to me on payment of their share, or is there a single process where they relinquish their share on payment and the property as a whole is transferred from the estate to myself?

Also there's the matter of when the property is registered and to whom and what sort of time scales does this thing typically take?

looks like we were posting at the same time on your original thread so here's my post again 

As far as the transfer of ownership goes then No re two transfers to get to the end result agreed to.
Use our online assisted guidance once you have checked and confirmed how the property is registered and how
Any Qs re tax/sdlt etc then contact/check with HMRC

And your additional Q re the final sentence - the Transfer from the estate to you will make it a compulsory first registration. And current wait times re a first registration are on average round 14+ months

I'm struggling to understand how would you complete form TR1 for the scenario I've described. On the page it mentions one beneficiary buying out others shares but doesn't go into any detail of how to complete the forms in this case.

So to confirm, it looks like I would need to complete a form FR1 along with a TR1, a conveyancing certificate and all supporting documents. Is this correct?

Land_Registry

shiraz99 said:

Land_Registry said:

shiraz99 said:

Hi @Land_Registry can you clarify what the process is involved with the following please?

I've inherited a property along with two siblings and the property is not currently registered with LR. I plan to "buy out", the other siblings of their equal shares. What is the process of transferring the property from the estate to myself, does it need to be transferred to all three of us first then their shares transferred to me on payment of their share, or is there a single process where they relinquish their share on payment and the property as a whole is transferred from the estate to myself?

Also there's the matter of when the property is registered and to whom and what sort of time scales does this thing typically take?

looks like we were posting at the same time on your original thread so here's my post again 

As far as the transfer of ownership goes then No re two transfers to get to the end result agreed to.
Use our online assisted guidance once you have checked and confirmed how the property is registered and how
Any Qs re tax/sdlt etc then contact/check with HMRC

And your additional Q re the final sentence - the Transfer from the estate to you will make it a compulsory first registration. And current wait times re a first registration are on average round 14+ months

I'm struggling to understand how would you complete form TR1 for the scenario I've described. On the page it mentions one beneficiary buying out others shares but doesn't go into any detail of how to complete the forms in this case.

So to confirm, it looks like I would need to complete a form FR1 along with a TR1, a conveyancing certificate and all supporting documents. Is this correct?

So the property is unregistered. If so then yes re FR1 and deeds/docs as described in the guidance. The executor transfers the ownership to the beneficiary and form TR1 can be used for that 

Lavender05

Hello! We are purchasing a house that previously had a small rentcharge. This was paid off and we have been provided with the deed of release as evidence, however as part of the enquiries, our solicitor is requesting the title is updated with the land registry to reflect this as this has not been done. Will this take a long time to be changed or can it be done relatively easily? Thank you!

Land_Registry

Lavender05 said:

Hello! We are purchasing a house that previously had a small rentcharge. This was paid off and we have been provided with the deed of release as evidence, however as part of the enquiries, our solicitor is requesting the title is updated with the land registry to reflect this as this has not been done. Will this take a long time to be changed or can it be done relatively easily? Thank you!

It will 'wait' to be processed so the key is to submit the application and then request expedition. Expedition then helps get it processed sooner and if it's all in order it can then be completed

art_girly

Hi @Land_Registry
We're buying a house that is vacant, probate property. We are also selling our current property to first time buyers, all straightforward or so we thought. Offers accepted back in May, mortgage offer issued......and then delays started.

The land/house we're buying has been in the same ownership since the 40s and is unregistered. On top of this, the boundary was altered in the 1980s (2 storey side extension) and the boundary was altered at the same time, informal agreement with the neighbours (who are the deceased's family).

We've been informed that the house will be registered with LR upon sale, fair enough, fairly standard as I understand. However, the boundary agreement has to be formalised / registered before this. We're being told this could take 'weeks' - finding it very hard to get any accurate info on what is involved, timescale, etc. Our solicitor advised that the application can be expedited due to sale being in progress - which we have requested. But still silence....

We had hoped originally to move by end of August.... are we living in cloud cuckoo land? What sort of timescale might we be looking at? 

Thanks.

Land_Registry

art_girly said:

Hi @Land_Registry
We're buying a house that is vacant, probate property. We are also selling our current property to first time buyers, all straightforward or so we thought. Offers accepted back in May, mortgage offer issued......and then delays started.

The land/house we're buying has been in the same ownership since the 40s and is unregistered. On top of this, the boundary was altered in the 1980s (2 storey side extension) and the boundary was altered at the same time, informal agreement with the neighbours (who are the deceased's family).

We've been informed that the house will be registered with LR upon sale, fair enough, fairly standard as I understand. However, the boundary agreement has to be formalised / registered before this. We're being told this could take 'weeks' - finding it very hard to get any accurate info on what is involved, timescale, etc. Our solicitor advised that the application can be expedited due to sale being in progress - which we have requested. But still silence....

We had hoped originally to move by end of August.... are we living in cloud cuckoo land? What sort of timescale might we be looking at? 

Thanks.

That's a tricky one to answer as the post contains contradictory information as I'm unclear as to how you can complete on the purchase and then register but not do the same re any boundary agreement?
Registering on sale for the first time isn't 'fairly standard' if you are buying with a mortgage but if that's the case then excellent.
So how are you going to register a boundary agreement against an unregistered title/property? 
Whose the agreement between? And how is it going to resolve the actual position of the legal boundary as it reads as if the 2 storey extension impacted significantly on the boundary as shown by the unregistered deeds? If so a boundary agreement would rarely resolve such matters but again, excellent if it has but that then leads me back to the original Q.
None of that is intended to challenge anything but mainly aimed at some extra clarity around what's happening here and what, if any, application has actually been submitted.
A very general answer would be that any application to register a boundary agreement would wait several months currently before being processed. You can request expedition as there's a dependent sale so reduce that wait time to around 2-3 weeks. But then you hit the first Q as it could only be registered against the one title/property
I understand reaching out for some reassurance on this forum but these are all Qs your conveyancer should be covering for you as to what the actual position is and what's needed before you can complete on the sale/purchase. Once they have lodged an application the timescales I mention can click in

art_girly

Land_Registry said:

art_girly said:

Hi @Land_Registry
We're buying a house that is vacant, probate property. We are also selling our current property to first time buyers, all straightforward or so we thought. Offers accepted back in May, mortgage offer issued......and then delays started.

The land/house we're buying has been in the same ownership since the 40s and is unregistered. On top of this, the boundary was altered in the 1980s (2 storey side extension) and the boundary was altered at the same time, informal agreement with the neighbours (who are the deceased's family).

We've been informed that the house will be registered with LR upon sale, fair enough, fairly standard as I understand. However, the boundary agreement has to be formalised / registered before this. We're being told this could take 'weeks' - finding it very hard to get any accurate info on what is involved, timescale, etc. Our solicitor advised that the application can be expedited due to sale being in progress - which we have requested. But still silence....

We had hoped originally to move by end of August.... are we living in cloud cuckoo land? What sort of timescale might we be looking at? 

Thanks.

That's a tricky one to answer as the post contains contradictory information as I'm unclear as to how you can complete on the purchase and then register but not do the same re any boundary agreement?
Registering on sale for the first time isn't 'fairly standard' if you are buying with a mortgage but if that's the case then excellent.
So how are you going to register a boundary agreement against an unregistered title/property? 
Whose the agreement between? And how is it going to resolve the actual position of the legal boundary as it reads as if the 2 storey extension impacted significantly on the boundary as shown by the unregistered deeds? If so a boundary agreement would rarely resolve such matters but again, excellent if it has but that then leads me back to the original Q.
None of that is intended to challenge anything but mainly aimed at some extra clarity around what's happening here and what, if any, application has actually been submitted.
A very general answer would be that any application to register a boundary agreement would wait several months currently before being processed. You can request expedition as there's a dependent sale so reduce that wait time to around 2-3 weeks. But then you hit the first Q as it could only be registered against the one title/property
I understand reaching out for some reassurance on this forum but these are all Qs your conveyancer should be covering for you as to what the actual position is and what's needed before you can complete on the sale/purchase. Once they have lodged an application the timescales I mention can click in

Hi, and thank you for your reply. I'm really struggling to get any clear answers about the exact situation, either via our own solicitor or the seller's solicitor (via the EA). There is a distinct lack of clarity from the seller's solicitor - for example, we were told probate had been granted but, in fact, it had not and we were only informed 6 weeks into the process. 

I'm really glad you have mentioned that it's impossible to register a boundary change if the property isn't itself registered - this hadn't occurred to me but makes perfect sense. So I guess I need clarification on whether the whole property, and boundary change, is being registered before sale - which I'm aware can take months, but be expedited (we have asked about this already). Or, is it possible that the neighbour could be update their boundary, and ours could then be submitted as part of the 'register upon sale'? 

Just for clarity, we were told that registering a property for the first time is often 'triggered' by a sale so I was just going on that information.The extension 'kinks' the boundary slightly, as the footprint exceeds the former boundary. I assume it was done to allow room for a full sized attached garage, and since the neighbours are family it was informally agreed. The way it was explained to us was that the boundary change needed to be formalised, I think they used the term 'land transfer' - but as you say, the property its being transferred to isn't registered?

Land_Registry

art_girly said:

Land_Registry said:

art_girly said:

Hi @Land_Registry
We're buying a house that is vacant, probate property. We are also selling our current property to first time buyers, all straightforward or so we thought. Offers accepted back in May, mortgage offer issued......and then delays started.

The land/house we're buying has been in the same ownership since the 40s and is unregistered. On top of this, the boundary was altered in the 1980s (2 storey side extension) and the boundary was altered at the same time, informal agreement with the neighbours (who are the deceased's family).

We've been informed that the house will be registered with LR upon sale, fair enough, fairly standard as I understand. However, the boundary agreement has to be formalised / registered before this. We're being told this could take 'weeks' - finding it very hard to get any accurate info on what is involved, timescale, etc. Our solicitor advised that the application can be expedited due to sale being in progress - which we have requested. But still silence....

We had hoped originally to move by end of August.... are we living in cloud cuckoo land? What sort of timescale might we be looking at? 

Thanks.

That's a tricky one to answer as the post contains contradictory information as I'm unclear as to how you can complete on the purchase and then register but not do the same re any boundary agreement?
Registering on sale for the first time isn't 'fairly standard' if you are buying with a mortgage but if that's the case then excellent.
So how are you going to register a boundary agreement against an unregistered title/property? 
Whose the agreement between? And how is it going to resolve the actual position of the legal boundary as it reads as if the 2 storey extension impacted significantly on the boundary as shown by the unregistered deeds? If so a boundary agreement would rarely resolve such matters but again, excellent if it has but that then leads me back to the original Q.
None of that is intended to challenge anything but mainly aimed at some extra clarity around what's happening here and what, if any, application has actually been submitted.
A very general answer would be that any application to register a boundary agreement would wait several months currently before being processed. You can request expedition as there's a dependent sale so reduce that wait time to around 2-3 weeks. But then you hit the first Q as it could only be registered against the one title/property
I understand reaching out for some reassurance on this forum but these are all Qs your conveyancer should be covering for you as to what the actual position is and what's needed before you can complete on the sale/purchase. Once they have lodged an application the timescales I mention can click in

Hi, and thank you for your reply. I'm really struggling to get any clear answers about the exact situation, either via our own solicitor or the seller's solicitor (via the EA). There is a distinct lack of clarity from the seller's solicitor - for example, we were told probate had been granted but, in fact, it had not and we were only informed 6 weeks into the process. 

I'm really glad you have mentioned that it's impossible to register a boundary change if the property isn't itself registered - this hadn't occurred to me but makes perfect sense. So I guess I need clarification on whether the whole property, and boundary change, is being registered before sale - which I'm aware can take months, but be expedited (we have asked about this already). Or, is it possible that the neighbour could be update their boundary, and ours could then be submitted as part of the 'register upon sale'? 

Just for clarity, we were told that registering a property for the first time is often 'triggered' by a sale so I was just going on that information.The extension 'kinks' the boundary slightly, as the footprint exceeds the former boundary. I assume it was done to allow room for a full sized attached garage, and since the neighbours are family it was informally agreed. The way it was explained to us was that the boundary change needed to be formalised, I think they used the term 'land transfer' - but as you say, the property its being transferred to isn't registered?

It's possible but it reads as if the 'kink' is significant and if so I would expect that either the neighbour transfers the bit of land lost (seems to be what might be happening as you mention a transfer) or the seller applies to register the property and claims ownership of the kink. The latter is perhaps less likely as it's a probate sale and they may not have all the facts and/or if the neighbour agreed to them taking some of their land then the claim fails.
And you are right that a sale/purchase triggers the need to register for the first time - my point was that in my experience, especially if you are buying with a mortgage, then your conveyancer/lender insist on it being registered first and all sorted before you complete.
Bottom line is only your conveyancer can clarify matters for you and explain when you might be able to complete 

art_girly

Land_Registry said:

art_girly said:

Land_Registry said:

art_girly said:

Hi @Land_Registry
We're buying a house that is vacant, probate property. We are also selling our current property to first time buyers, all straightforward or so we thought. Offers accepted back in May, mortgage offer issued......and then delays started.

The land/house we're buying has been in the same ownership since the 40s and is unregistered. On top of this, the boundary was altered in the 1980s (2 storey side extension) and the boundary was altered at the same time, informal agreement with the neighbours (who are the deceased's family).

We've been informed that the house will be registered with LR upon sale, fair enough, fairly standard as I understand. However, the boundary agreement has to be formalised / registered before this. We're being told this could take 'weeks' - finding it very hard to get any accurate info on what is involved, timescale, etc. Our solicitor advised that the application can be expedited due to sale being in progress - which we have requested. But still silence....

We had hoped originally to move by end of August.... are we living in cloud cuckoo land? What sort of timescale might we be looking at? 

Thanks.

That's a tricky one to answer as the post contains contradictory information as I'm unclear as to how you can complete on the purchase and then register but not do the same re any boundary agreement?
Registering on sale for the first time isn't 'fairly standard' if you are buying with a mortgage but if that's the case then excellent.
So how are you going to register a boundary agreement against an unregistered title/property? 
Whose the agreement between? And how is it going to resolve the actual position of the legal boundary as it reads as if the 2 storey extension impacted significantly on the boundary as shown by the unregistered deeds? If so a boundary agreement would rarely resolve such matters but again, excellent if it has but that then leads me back to the original Q.
None of that is intended to challenge anything but mainly aimed at some extra clarity around what's happening here and what, if any, application has actually been submitted.
A very general answer would be that any application to register a boundary agreement would wait several months currently before being processed. You can request expedition as there's a dependent sale so reduce that wait time to around 2-3 weeks. But then you hit the first Q as it could only be registered against the one title/property
I understand reaching out for some reassurance on this forum but these are all Qs your conveyancer should be covering for you as to what the actual position is and what's needed before you can complete on the sale/purchase. Once they have lodged an application the timescales I mention can click in

Hi, and thank you for your reply. I'm really struggling to get any clear answers about the exact situation, either via our own solicitor or the seller's solicitor (via the EA). There is a distinct lack of clarity from the seller's solicitor - for example, we were told probate had been granted but, in fact, it had not and we were only informed 6 weeks into the process. 

I'm really glad you have mentioned that it's impossible to register a boundary change if the property isn't itself registered - this hadn't occurred to me but makes perfect sense. So I guess I need clarification on whether the whole property, and boundary change, is being registered before sale - which I'm aware can take months, but be expedited (we have asked about this already). Or, is it possible that the neighbour could be update their boundary, and ours could then be submitted as part of the 'register upon sale'? 

Just for clarity, we were told that registering a property for the first time is often 'triggered' by a sale so I was just going on that information.The extension 'kinks' the boundary slightly, as the footprint exceeds the former boundary. I assume it was done to allow room for a full sized attached garage, and since the neighbours are family it was informally agreed. The way it was explained to us was that the boundary change needed to be formalised, I think they used the term 'land transfer' - but as you say, the property its being transferred to isn't registered?

It's possible but it reads as if the 'kink' is significant and if so I would expect that either the neighbour transfers the bit of land lost (seems to be what might be happening as you mention a transfer) or the seller applies to register the property and claims ownership of the kink. The latter is perhaps less likely as it's a probate sale and they may not have all the facts and/or if the neighbour agreed to them taking some of their land then the claim fails.
And you are right that a sale/purchase triggers the need to register for the first time - my point was that in my experience, especially if you are buying with a mortgage, then your conveyancer/lender insist on it being registered first and all sorted before you complete.
Bottom line is only your conveyancer can clarify matters for you and explain when you might be able to complete 

Thanks again. The piece of land is maybe 3m at its longest by 1m widest where the extension 'protrudes'over the original boundary onto the neighbours' land.

The solicitor's words:

"In relation to the piece of land which is being transferred at the Land Registry, this piece of land currently falls within the boundaries of the neighbouring property, whose land is registered at the Land Registry. This piece of land is to be transferred to the sellers of XXXX and then will be sold to you along with the unregistered land upon which belongs to XXXX within the deeds."

So I guess my only real question then, is can a transfer application like this be expedited because a sale is in progress? We have asked for a request to be made but we've no guarantee it'll be granted? Our buyers have, so far, been understanding but it's increasingly tricky to update them when nothing seems to be moving forward and I don't have a timescale - and neither solicitor will comment on one either.