Land Registry questions

dizzydusty

@LandRegistry.

Hi, my partners father died recently leaving him and his brother a property in Scotland in his will.  Property is split in to 2 flats with each brother receiving a flat each. A search of his dads house has not resulted in title deeds for the flats.  The lawyer dealing with the will has now come back to my partners brother (who is executor) and stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats.  My partners father was leasing out both flats and receiving rent and has been for years and no one was aware that the father was not named on the Land Registry records.  Neither my partner or his brother have obtained a copy of the title deeds from Land Registry as it was assumed the Lawyer would have done this. 

They are now at a loss as to what to do and how to go about finding out who the legal owner of the properties is.  Can you help?

Thanks

Land_Registry

dizzydusty said:

@LandRegistry.

Hi, my partners father died recently leaving him and his brother a property in Scotland in his will.  Property is split in to 2 flats with each brother receiving a flat each. A search of his dads house has not resulted in title deeds for the flats.  The lawyer dealing with the will has now come back to my partners brother (who is executor) and stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats.  My partners father was leasing out both flats and receiving rent and has been for years and no one was aware that the father was not named on the Land Registry records.  Neither my partner or his brother have obtained a copy of the title deeds from Land Registry as it was assumed the Lawyer would have done this. 

They are now at a loss as to what to do and how to go about finding out who the legal owner of the properties is.  Can you help?

Thanks

As the property is in Scotland it’s not something I can advise on. You’d need to contact the Registers of Scotland for guidance as appropriate 

ciaolupo

I am in the process of purchasing a property which on offer I was told by EA was at 189 year lease.  I later found out through my mortgage company that it is at 84 years. 

On investigation the vendor stated it was an extended in 2022 and due to solicitor at the time going bust, still is waiting in line to be registered at Land Registry. After 2 months they still have not provided me with proof of application.
Why could this be? I am concerned by this.

Land_Registry

ciaolupo said:

I am in the process of purchasing a property which on offer I was told by EA was at 189 year lease.  I later found out through my mortgage company that it is at 84 years. 

On investigation the vendor stated it was an extended in 2022 and due to solicitor at the time going bust, still is waiting in line to be registered at Land Registry. After 2 months they still have not provided me with proof of application.
Why could this be? I am concerned by this.

Simple answer is that it’s still waiting to be processed. If there’s an urgency, such as an onward sale/purchase, then they need to request expedition. 

If they’ve done that and still not processed then the conveyancer should know what the delay is for 

user1977

dizzydusty said:

Hi, my partners father died recently leaving him and his brother a property in Scotland in his will.  Property is split in to 2 flats with each brother receiving a flat each. A search of his dads house has not resulted in title deeds for the flats.  The lawyer dealing with the will has now come back to my partners brother (who is executor) and stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats.  My partners father was leasing out both flats and receiving rent and has been for years and no one was aware that the father was not named on the Land Registry records.  Neither my partner or his brother have obtained a copy of the title deeds from Land Registry as it was assumed the Lawyer would have done this. 

They are now at a loss as to what to do and how to go about finding out who the legal owner of the properties is.  Can you help?

If the company had never transferred it out of their name (bit odd for somebody to have overlooked that? When was the Will made?) then I presume you'll need Isle of Man advice about what happens to such assets (or whether the company can be reinstated).

Not sure why you're asking about obtaining a copy of the title deeds if "the lawyer...has stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats" - so presumably the lawyer has searched the Land Register of Scotland (and/or Register of Sasines) to see what was last registered?

silvercar

user1977 said:

dizzydusty said:

Hi, my partners father died recently leaving him and his brother a property in Scotland in his will.  Property is split in to 2 flats with each brother receiving a flat each. A search of his dads house has not resulted in title deeds for the flats.  The lawyer dealing with the will has now come back to my partners brother (who is executor) and stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats.  My partners father was leasing out both flats and receiving rent and has been for years and no one was aware that the father was not named on the Land Registry records.  Neither my partner or his brother have obtained a copy of the title deeds from Land Registry as it was assumed the Lawyer would have done this. 

They are now at a loss as to what to do and how to go about finding out who the legal owner of the properties is.  Can you help?

If the company had never transferred it out of their name (bit odd for somebody to have overlooked that? When was the Will made?) then I presume you'll need Isle of Man advice about what happens to such assets (or whether the company can be reinstated).

Not sure why you're asking about obtaining a copy of the title deeds if "the lawyer...has stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats" - so presumably the lawyer has searched the Land Register of Scotland (and/or Register of Sasines) to see what was last registered?

Doesn’t it depend whether the father had purchased the property from the Isle of Man company, but the deeds were never updated, or whether the father registered this Isle of Man company as the owner of the property for some reason? If the former then some evidenced of that and that the father had been the owner for decades may allow the transfer to now be made. If the latter investigate why it was dissolved and go from there.

user1977

silvercar said:

user1977 said:

dizzydusty said:

Hi, my partners father died recently leaving him and his brother a property in Scotland in his will.  Property is split in to 2 flats with each brother receiving a flat each. A search of his dads house has not resulted in title deeds for the flats.  The lawyer dealing with the will has now come back to my partners brother (who is executor) and stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats.  My partners father was leasing out both flats and receiving rent and has been for years and no one was aware that the father was not named on the Land Registry records.  Neither my partner or his brother have obtained a copy of the title deeds from Land Registry as it was assumed the Lawyer would have done this. 

They are now at a loss as to what to do and how to go about finding out who the legal owner of the properties is.  Can you help?

If the company had never transferred it out of their name (bit odd for somebody to have overlooked that? When was the Will made?) then I presume you'll need Isle of Man advice about what happens to such assets (or whether the company can be reinstated).

Not sure why you're asking about obtaining a copy of the title deeds if "the lawyer...has stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats" - so presumably the lawyer has searched the Land Register of Scotland (and/or Register of Sasines) to see what was last registered?

Doesn’t it depend whether the father had purchased the property from the Isle of Man company, but the deeds were never updated, or whether the father registered this Isle of Man company as the owner of the property for some reason? If the former then some evidenced of that and that the father had been the owner for decades may allow the transfer to now be made. If the latter investigate why it was dissolved and go from there.

The only acceptable evidence is going to be an unregistered deed floating around somewhere - which I suppose is possible. But seems unlikely.

silvercar

user1977 said:

silvercar said:

user1977 said:

dizzydusty said:

Hi, my partners father died recently leaving him and his brother a property in Scotland in his will.  Property is split in to 2 flats with each brother receiving a flat each. A search of his dads house has not resulted in title deeds for the flats.  The lawyer dealing with the will has now come back to my partners brother (who is executor) and stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats.  My partners father was leasing out both flats and receiving rent and has been for years and no one was aware that the father was not named on the Land Registry records.  Neither my partner or his brother have obtained a copy of the title deeds from Land Registry as it was assumed the Lawyer would have done this. 

They are now at a loss as to what to do and how to go about finding out who the legal owner of the properties is.  Can you help?

If the company had never transferred it out of their name (bit odd for somebody to have overlooked that? When was the Will made?) then I presume you'll need Isle of Man advice about what happens to such assets (or whether the company can be reinstated).

Not sure why you're asking about obtaining a copy of the title deeds if "the lawyer...has stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats" - so presumably the lawyer has searched the Land Register of Scotland (and/or Register of Sasines) to see what was last registered?

Doesn’t it depend whether the father had purchased the property from the Isle of Man company, but the deeds were never updated, or whether the father registered this Isle of Man company as the owner of the property for some reason? If the former then some evidenced of that and that the father had been the owner for decades may allow the transfer to now be made. If the latter investigate why it was dissolved and go from there.

The only acceptable evidence is going to be an unregistered deed floating around somewhere - which I suppose is possible. But seems unlikely.

Either this Isle of Man company sold the property to the father or the father created or bought the Isle of Man company, there is no other logical explanation of how the father was able to manage the property for decades. Witness statements going back decades may count for something, otherwise who now owns the property? When a company is dissolved its assets’ pass to the crown, so the company needs to be resurrected. https://www.gov.uk/claiming-money-or-property-from-dissolved-company#:~:text=a%20discretionary%20grant-,Overview,property%20and%20land

user1977

silvercar said:

user1977 said:

silvercar said:

user1977 said:

dizzydusty said:

Hi, my partners father died recently leaving him and his brother a property in Scotland in his will.  Property is split in to 2 flats with each brother receiving a flat each. A search of his dads house has not resulted in title deeds for the flats.  The lawyer dealing with the will has now come back to my partners brother (who is executor) and stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats.  My partners father was leasing out both flats and receiving rent and has been for years and no one was aware that the father was not named on the Land Registry records.  Neither my partner or his brother have obtained a copy of the title deeds from Land Registry as it was assumed the Lawyer would have done this. 

They are now at a loss as to what to do and how to go about finding out who the legal owner of the properties is.  Can you help?

If the company had never transferred it out of their name (bit odd for somebody to have overlooked that? When was the Will made?) then I presume you'll need Isle of Man advice about what happens to such assets (or whether the company can be reinstated).

Not sure why you're asking about obtaining a copy of the title deeds if "the lawyer...has stated that Land Registry have a company registered in the Isle of Man (dissolved in 1993) on the records for both flats" - so presumably the lawyer has searched the Land Register of Scotland (and/or Register of Sasines) to see what was last registered?

Doesn’t it depend whether the father had purchased the property from the Isle of Man company, but the deeds were never updated, or whether the father registered this Isle of Man company as the owner of the property for some reason? If the former then some evidenced of that and that the father had been the owner for decades may allow the transfer to now be made. If the latter investigate why it was dissolved and go from there.

The only acceptable evidence is going to be an unregistered deed floating around somewhere - which I suppose is possible. But seems unlikely.

Either this Isle of Man company sold the property to the father or the father created or bought the Isle of Man company, there is no other logical explanation of how the father was able to manage the property for decades. Witness statements going back decades may count for something, otherwise who now owns the property? When a company is dissolved its assets’ pass to the crown, so the company needs to be resurrected. https://www.gov.uk/claiming-money-or-property-from-dissolved-company#:~:text=a%20discretionary%20grant-,Overview,property%20and%20land

It's a Manx company, what happens in the UK doesn't necessarily happen there.

I was presuming the father owned the company, but maybe the OP can clarify.

ciaolupo

Lease extension from 84 to 189 years (since 2022) on the property i am buying has been expediated by vendor, but this was 2 months ago and still we hear nothing. Does this mean there is a problem? I have sold my property and have to pay to rent until this is sorted as my mortgage company wont agree on a 84 year lease. I want to know how long this should take, should i wait or if there is a problem look for somewhere else.