Land Registry questions

Land_Registry

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

My property has positive covenants regarding maintenance of a driveway that is shared with 2 other properties. The cost allocation is unfair so we’d like to update it to state that maintenance and repair costs for the driveway should be split equally between the 3 properties, ie each property pays one third. Which form should I complete?

If the titles are registered then form AP1 is the form to use to update each register. You then submit the form plus supporting evidence as appropriate. 

Varying covenants is invariably done by way of a legal deed between all affected parties 

Thanks. There is also a shared septic tank and positive covenants on my title regarding maintenance and repair of the septic tank. I am planning to stop using it and to install a separate sewage treatment solution on my own property rather than sharing. Would I need to submit AP1 for that too, in order to remove the covenants for the shared septic tank that I no longer use? 

AP1 is the application form used to update a registered title as appropriate. It doesn’t change anything on it’s own though as if you are varying or releasing or creating new covenants or indeed easements you need a legal deed to do that. That legal deed needs to be made with the affected parties 
Your posts read as if it’s just you planning to do certain things but that’s not something that would support a register update. Stopping to use a septic tank and installing a new solution are actions only. They’re not registrable in themselves 

Thanks. I agree that the actions themselves are not registerable. My concern is that if I don’t update the land registry it will leave me unable to sell my house in the future. Eg my property will have its own septic tank and in addition to that, the title will say that I still have to pay for the shared septic tank that I no longer use. Nobody is going to want to buy my house if it has a convenant to maintain someone else’s septic tank.

To put it another way, if I draw up a legal deed with my neighbours, how do I request that the land registry associate the legal deed with my title? A legal covenant that isn’t held by the land registry is worthless because the land registry is held as the source of truth in a property transaction. Decades from now a legal deed can be lost and forgotten so future buyers and sellers will be unaware of it if it’s not held by the land registry.

Hence you create a legal deed that achieves what you want. And then you apply to note it against the relevant titles. 

Covenants are imposed for the benefit of others. Likewise other provisions and more. So you look at what’s imposed, who benefits from or is subject to it/them and then find a legal solution that does what you want to achieve. If that’s a legal deed and it can be registered then you apply as explained. 

You should seek legal advice as with all such things it’s the legal requirements you need to meet first. Registration ones then follow 

It’s the “and then you apply to note it against the relevant titles” that I need to understand. How do I apply? Is this done via form AP1?

Yes - form AP1 is just that. An application form, that’s all. Without it there’s no application. Without it and a legal deed there’s nothing to register. 

MoneyGeoff

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

My property has positive covenants regarding maintenance of a driveway that is shared with 2 other properties. The cost allocation is unfair so we’d like to update it to state that maintenance and repair costs for the driveway should be split equally between the 3 properties, ie each property pays one third. Which form should I complete?

If the titles are registered then form AP1 is the form to use to update each register. You then submit the form plus supporting evidence as appropriate. 

Varying covenants is invariably done by way of a legal deed between all affected parties 

Thanks. There is also a shared septic tank and positive covenants on my title regarding maintenance and repair of the septic tank. I am planning to stop using it and to install a separate sewage treatment solution on my own property rather than sharing. Would I need to submit AP1 for that too, in order to remove the covenants for the shared septic tank that I no longer use? 

AP1 is the application form used to update a registered title as appropriate. It doesn’t change anything on it’s own though as if you are varying or releasing or creating new covenants or indeed easements you need a legal deed to do that. That legal deed needs to be made with the affected parties 
Your posts read as if it’s just you planning to do certain things but that’s not something that would support a register update. Stopping to use a septic tank and installing a new solution are actions only. They’re not registrable in themselves 

Thanks. I agree that the actions themselves are not registerable. My concern is that if I don’t update the land registry it will leave me unable to sell my house in the future. Eg my property will have its own septic tank and in addition to that, the title will say that I still have to pay for the shared septic tank that I no longer use. Nobody is going to want to buy my house if it has a convenant to maintain someone else’s septic tank.

To put it another way, if I draw up a legal deed with my neighbours, how do I request that the land registry associate the legal deed with my title? A legal covenant that isn’t held by the land registry is worthless because the land registry is held as the source of truth in a property transaction. Decades from now a legal deed can be lost and forgotten so future buyers and sellers will be unaware of it if it’s not held by the land registry.

Hence you create a legal deed that achieves what you want. And then you apply to note it against the relevant titles. 

Covenants are imposed for the benefit of others. Likewise other provisions and more. So you look at what’s imposed, who benefits from or is subject to it/them and then find a legal solution that does what you want to achieve. If that’s a legal deed and it can be registered then you apply as explained. 

You should seek legal advice as with all such things it’s the legal requirements you need to meet first. Registration ones then follow 

It’s the “and then you apply to note it against the relevant titles” that I need to understand. How do I apply? Is this done via form AP1?

Yes - form AP1 is just that. An application form, that’s all. Without it there’s no application. Without it and a legal deed there’s nothing to register. 

Thanks. I do understand your frustration that I am asking about the end of the process without having completed the first steps. From my perspective, that’s how project planning works. You have to understand it end to end before you start. The land registry part is the critical step, and the most opaque and most time consuming. I simply can’t spend over £11,000 on this septic tank/driveway issue without first checking that the land registry have a process in place to allow me to supersede the convenants.

Land_Registry

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

My property has positive covenants regarding maintenance of a driveway that is shared with 2 other properties. The cost allocation is unfair so we’d like to update it to state that maintenance and repair costs for the driveway should be split equally between the 3 properties, ie each property pays one third. Which form should I complete?

If the titles are registered then form AP1 is the form to use to update each register. You then submit the form plus supporting evidence as appropriate. 

Varying covenants is invariably done by way of a legal deed between all affected parties 

Thanks. There is also a shared septic tank and positive covenants on my title regarding maintenance and repair of the septic tank. I am planning to stop using it and to install a separate sewage treatment solution on my own property rather than sharing. Would I need to submit AP1 for that too, in order to remove the covenants for the shared septic tank that I no longer use? 

AP1 is the application form used to update a registered title as appropriate. It doesn’t change anything on it’s own though as if you are varying or releasing or creating new covenants or indeed easements you need a legal deed to do that. That legal deed needs to be made with the affected parties 
Your posts read as if it’s just you planning to do certain things but that’s not something that would support a register update. Stopping to use a septic tank and installing a new solution are actions only. They’re not registrable in themselves 

Thanks. I agree that the actions themselves are not registerable. My concern is that if I don’t update the land registry it will leave me unable to sell my house in the future. Eg my property will have its own septic tank and in addition to that, the title will say that I still have to pay for the shared septic tank that I no longer use. Nobody is going to want to buy my house if it has a convenant to maintain someone else’s septic tank.

To put it another way, if I draw up a legal deed with my neighbours, how do I request that the land registry associate the legal deed with my title? A legal covenant that isn’t held by the land registry is worthless because the land registry is held as the source of truth in a property transaction. Decades from now a legal deed can be lost and forgotten so future buyers and sellers will be unaware of it if it’s not held by the land registry.

Hence you create a legal deed that achieves what you want. And then you apply to note it against the relevant titles. 

Covenants are imposed for the benefit of others. Likewise other provisions and more. So you look at what’s imposed, who benefits from or is subject to it/them and then find a legal solution that does what you want to achieve. If that’s a legal deed and it can be registered then you apply as explained. 

You should seek legal advice as with all such things it’s the legal requirements you need to meet first. Registration ones then follow 

It’s the “and then you apply to note it against the relevant titles” that I need to understand. How do I apply? Is this done via form AP1?

Yes - form AP1 is just that. An application form, that’s all. Without it there’s no application. Without it and a legal deed there’s nothing to register. 

Thanks. I do understand your frustration that I am asking about the end of the process without having completed the first steps. From my perspective, that’s how project planning works. You have to understand it end to end before you start. The land registry part is the critical step, and the most opaque and most time consuming. I simply can’t spend over £11,000 on this septic tank/driveway issue without first checking that the land registry have a process in place to allow me to supersede the convenants.

But that’s really the whole point here. It’s not a registration process that allows you to supersede the covenants. That’s a legal process first. You then apply to register that legal outcome. 

I totally understand the end to end process but the very significant part between your project planning and registration (if any) is the legal requirement. 

I’d disagree - the registration part is actually the simplest. Ensuring what you are planning is both doable and legal. And everyone who needs to be legally involved is and is in agreement. Those are the most time consuming. 

MoneyGeoff

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

Land_Registry said:

MoneyGeoff said:

My property has positive covenants regarding maintenance of a driveway that is shared with 2 other properties. The cost allocation is unfair so we’d like to update it to state that maintenance and repair costs for the driveway should be split equally between the 3 properties, ie each property pays one third. Which form should I complete?

If the titles are registered then form AP1 is the form to use to update each register. You then submit the form plus supporting evidence as appropriate. 

Varying covenants is invariably done by way of a legal deed between all affected parties 

Thanks. There is also a shared septic tank and positive covenants on my title regarding maintenance and repair of the septic tank. I am planning to stop using it and to install a separate sewage treatment solution on my own property rather than sharing. Would I need to submit AP1 for that too, in order to remove the covenants for the shared septic tank that I no longer use? 

AP1 is the application form used to update a registered title as appropriate. It doesn’t change anything on it’s own though as if you are varying or releasing or creating new covenants or indeed easements you need a legal deed to do that. That legal deed needs to be made with the affected parties 
Your posts read as if it’s just you planning to do certain things but that’s not something that would support a register update. Stopping to use a septic tank and installing a new solution are actions only. They’re not registrable in themselves 

Thanks. I agree that the actions themselves are not registerable. My concern is that if I don’t update the land registry it will leave me unable to sell my house in the future. Eg my property will have its own septic tank and in addition to that, the title will say that I still have to pay for the shared septic tank that I no longer use. Nobody is going to want to buy my house if it has a convenant to maintain someone else’s septic tank.

To put it another way, if I draw up a legal deed with my neighbours, how do I request that the land registry associate the legal deed with my title? A legal covenant that isn’t held by the land registry is worthless because the land registry is held as the source of truth in a property transaction. Decades from now a legal deed can be lost and forgotten so future buyers and sellers will be unaware of it if it’s not held by the land registry.

Hence you create a legal deed that achieves what you want. And then you apply to note it against the relevant titles. 

Covenants are imposed for the benefit of others. Likewise other provisions and more. So you look at what’s imposed, who benefits from or is subject to it/them and then find a legal solution that does what you want to achieve. If that’s a legal deed and it can be registered then you apply as explained. 

You should seek legal advice as with all such things it’s the legal requirements you need to meet first. Registration ones then follow 

It’s the “and then you apply to note it against the relevant titles” that I need to understand. How do I apply? Is this done via form AP1?

Yes - form AP1 is just that. An application form, that’s all. Without it there’s no application. Without it and a legal deed there’s nothing to register. 

Thanks. I do understand your frustration that I am asking about the end of the process without having completed the first steps. From my perspective, that’s how project planning works. You have to understand it end to end before you start. The land registry part is the critical step, and the most opaque and most time consuming. I simply can’t spend over £11,000 on this septic tank/driveway issue without first checking that the land registry have a process in place to allow me to supersede the convenants.

But that’s really the whole point here. It’s not a registration process that allows you to supersede the covenants. That’s a legal process first. You then apply to register that legal outcome. 

I totally understand the end to end process but the very significant part between your project planning and registration (if any) is the legal requirement. 

I’d disagree - the registration part is actually the simplest. Ensuring what you are planning is both doable and legal. And everyone who needs to be legally involved is and is in agreement. Those are the most time consuming. 

Thanks for your patience. You are right to say that the works and the legality of it is the most complex part but the point is, I don't need to understand the details of that and I'm not liable for it. The septic tank company have to make sure their installation and parts are legal and they are liable if it isn't. Whereas with the old, shared, septic the land registry docs say I'm liable and therefore the council can fine me up to £100,000. I simple won't feel comfortable until the land registry documents are updated, even if I'm no longer using the old septic tank. I've had too many battles during house sales over the years. Don't get me started on tree preservation orders

In terms of agreement, that seems simple too. I've agreed a way forward with the neighbours. The current document is as below. So it's just a matter of writing up new wording and having everyone sign it.

4. THE Vendor hereby covenants on behalf of himself and his successors

in title with the Purchasers and their successors in title for the benefit of the property hereby conveyed as follows

(a) to pay one quarter of the cost of maintaining and keeping in good

repair and condition the access road coloured brown on the said plan

annexed hereto;

(b) to pay one half of the cost of maintaining and keeping in good repair and condition the sewers pipes and septic tank serving the adjoining property jointly with the property shown edged green on the said plan annexed hereto being the property retained by...

Conversely, for the land registry part, it's taken me a day just to figure out which form to fill in Next I'll have to read the guidance document for AP1. Then I'll need to understand the costs. I'm not sure whether its scale 1 or scale 2 fees? Scale 1 is prohibitively expensive. If it's scale 2, then that would be £145 per title that needs updating?

There are many people on this forum saying they've been waiting nearly a year for applications to be processed by land registry. So I think it's going to take a while. I do understand your point that, in theory, it's the legality of the setup and legal deeds that matter, not what land registry hold. But in my experience the land registry is taken as the source of truth by solicitors and it takes months to convince them otherwise even if other contracts exist outside of the land registry. I had to get written statements from the council when I sold my last house due to the tree preservation order on a tree that didn't exist! The conveyancing took 9 months because of it. Solicitors absolutely love this sort of issue Property disputes and sales aren’t about truth they are about proof. It’s very stressful, time consuming and expensive trying to prove something if the land registry documents contradict you. That’s why I see the land registry part as critical rather than just an application form.

MoneyGeoff

Ah sorry, I just noticed the “alteration of the register” option on the fee calculator. So I think it will cost 3 x £40 to add a note to the 3 titles to mention the new deed. If you could confirm that I need to submit 3 x AP1 and each will cost £40 then I’ll leave you in peace

Land_Registry

MoneyGeoff said:

Ah sorry, I just noticed the “alteration of the register” option on the fee calculator. So I think it will cost 3 x £40 to add a note to the 3 titles to mention the new deed. If you could confirm that I need to submit 3 x AP1 and each will cost £40 then I’ll leave you in peace

Normally it’s one AP1 to cover all the titles as the application/deed is common to all 
And as an aside TPOs have nothing to do with land registration but can be part of the conveyancing participation 

MoneyGeoff

Great, if I can do one deed and one AP1 that makes it a lot easier and cheaper.

Hebblethwaite

I'm here for the third time to ask for your help - so grateful for your posts here!

I bought my house in December 2021. It then took ages for everything to get updated on the land registry because of a somewhat complicated issue with the leasehold and freehold having been purchased separately (one jointly by my vendor and her deceased husband, one solely by the husband). I had signed up for the land registry update service but have never received a notification email to say the entry had been updated. I checked in with you in March 2023 and you said it was still being worked on. 

I am now in the process of trying to get a good re-mortgage deal in place in advance of any further rate rises this year. As part of that process, I have realised that the titles do now list me as the owner and the purchase price has been updated. Yet I still haven't received a notification email. Is the system not working? I was only registered to get notifications for the freehold rather than the leasehold, but both have been updated so not sure why I wouldn't have been notified.

Secondly (and my main question), because my leasehold and freehold (both owned by me) are registered under separate title numbers, I am now needing to pay an excess legal fee to secure my mortgage offer. As I may want to dump this offer if rates do miraculously come down over the next six months, I may have to pay this excess legal fee a second (or even third) time in order to secure the best possible deal. I am curious about why the leasehold and freehold don't fall under the same title number now that both are owned in the same name. Is that normal? If not, is there any way to combine them so that I don't face additional costs every time I remortgage? Conveyancers charge a lot more to check an additional title number than the cost of downloading the additional titles so this could amount to a lot of extra money over the years! The title numbers are: SYK97045 and SYK696839.

Thank you so much for your time.

jstorkey

Hello,
I am selling my shared ownership property and the buyers solicitor has said that a restriction on the title needs to be removed.  The restriction states that a certificate of compliance would need to be issued to ensure a particular paragraph in the lease has been complied with…. but it doesn’t exist!
The freeholder are refusing to issue an RX4 to remove the restriction and simply state they will issue a certificate of compliance upon completion, but this obviously isn’t good enough for the buyers solicitor.  Any advice???  We have been back and forth on this for weeks and no one is budging.

Land_Registry

Hebblethwaite said:

I'm here for the third time to ask for your help - so grateful for your posts here!

I bought my house in December 2021. It then took ages for everything to get updated on the land registry because of a somewhat complicated issue with the leasehold and freehold having been purchased separately (one jointly by my vendor and her deceased husband, one solely by the husband). I had signed up for the land registry update service but have never received a notification email to say the entry had been updated. I checked in with you in March 2023 and you said it was still being worked on. 

I am now in the process of trying to get a good re-mortgage deal in place in advance of any further rate rises this year. As part of that process, I have realised that the titles do now list me as the owner and the purchase price has been updated. Yet I still haven't received a notification email. Is the system not working? I was only registered to get notifications for the freehold rather than the leasehold, but both have been updated so not sure why I wouldn't have been notified.

Secondly (and my main question), because my leasehold and freehold (both owned by me) are registered under separate title numbers, I am now needing to pay an excess legal fee to secure my mortgage offer. As I may want to dump this offer if rates do miraculously come down over the next six months, I may have to pay this excess legal fee a second (or even third) time in order to secure the best possible deal. I am curious about why the leasehold and freehold don't fall under the same title number now that both are owned in the same name. Is that normal? If not, is there any way to combine them so that I don't face additional costs every time I remortgage? Conveyancers charge a lot more to check an additional title number than the cost of downloading the additional titles so this could amount to a lot of extra money over the years! The title numbers are: SYK97045 and SYK696839.

Thank you so much for your time.

First Q - you are notified on submission only. It’s a Property Alert service to help prevent fraud so very much focussed on submission and not the end registration. You wouldn’t be notified by us. 

Separate LH and FH titles don’t become one FH unless an application to merge the two or some other LH closure is applied for. If you don’t apply then they stay as two separate titles/tenures. Very common. 

There can be reasons to keep the LH going such as it includes rights you’d lose if closed