Land Registry questions

fabs35

silvercar said:

fabs35 said:

Hi

We purchased our property in 2018 and it was previously unregistered.

When we registered it, our conveyancing solicitor told us that the title plan outline (i.e. the red line) was determined by looking at the original deeds and the extent of land shown on the title plans for the registered properties on either side. This was then sent to us for approval by comparing it to the physical boundary features.

The couple living next door have sadly passed away and their son is looking to sell their home and is claiming that the position of the fence is incorrect. The fence seems to match what is on the title plan  but he claiming that the true boundary is 15 inches into our garden.

I am hoping someone can help with;

1) The neighbours property was registered (voluntarily) in 2002. Our plan exactly matches their plan (where our boundaries meet). If their title plan is incorrect, did they have a duty to rectify it - so that the first registrations of adjacent properties would have correct boundaries on their respective title plans?

2) When our property was registered in 2018, would the couple living next door have been provided with a copy of our title plan, in order to give them the chance to object/comment?

3) I have been informed by the neighbours at the rear that the fence in question has been in place for at least thirty years. We bought our property when it was going through probate - does adverse possession apply as the previous owners of our property had passed away and we bought it from their children. To complicate matters further, as mentioned above, the land that we would potentially making the claim against is also going through probate and up for sale.

This is what I have found on the LR website...

Adverse possession becomes more complicated in cases where a previous landowner has died. Upon a person’s death, all of their property passes to their estate. This can create a type of trust.

Hope the above is clear.

TIA.




 

Sounds like you registered it in 2018, your neighbour registered their land in 2002. A third party confirms this boundary was in place 30 years ago. The fence matches the deeds. The plans all match.

Along comes the new owner in 2023 and wants to argue about something already registered. Twice. I wouldn't give it time of day.

I completely agree but he is a lawyer (I'm assuming he doesn't specialise in law) and we did consider throwing some money at it  to make it all go away but then we reconsidered and thought perhaps we should stand up to the bully!

Land_Registry

fabs35 said:

silvercar said:

fabs35 said:

Hi

We purchased our property in 2018 and it was previously unregistered.

When we registered it, our conveyancing solicitor told us that the title plan outline (i.e. the red line) was determined by looking at the original deeds and the extent of land shown on the title plans for the registered properties on either side. This was then sent to us for approval by comparing it to the physical boundary features.

The couple living next door have sadly passed away and their son is looking to sell their home and is claiming that the position of the fence is incorrect. The fence seems to match what is on the title plan  but he claiming that the true boundary is 15 inches into our garden.

I am hoping someone can help with;

1) The neighbours property was registered (voluntarily) in 2002. Our plan exactly matches their plan (where our boundaries meet). If their title plan is incorrect, did they have a duty to rectify it - so that the first registrations of adjacent properties would have correct boundaries on their respective title plans?

2) When our property was registered in 2018, would the couple living next door have been provided with a copy of our title plan, in order to give them the chance to object/comment?

3) I have been informed by the neighbours at the rear that the fence in question has been in place for at least thirty years. We bought our property when it was going through probate - does adverse possession apply as the previous owners of our property had passed away and we bought it from their children. To complicate matters further, as mentioned above, the land that we would potentially making the claim against is also going through probate and up for sale.

This is what I have found on the LR website...

Adverse possession becomes more complicated in cases where a previous landowner has died. Upon a person’s death, all of their property passes to their estate. This can create a type of trust.

Hope the above is clear.

TIA.




 

Sounds like you registered it in 2018, your neighbour registered their land in 2002. A third party confirms this boundary was in place 30 years ago. The fence matches the deeds. The plans all match.

Along comes the new owner in 2023 and wants to argue about something already registered. Twice. I wouldn't give it time of day.

I completely agree but he is a lawyer (I'm assuming he doesn't specialise in law) and we did consider throwing some money at it  to make it all go away but then we reconsidered and thought perhaps we should stand up to the bully!

15 inches is too small a distance to show on a registration plan. As such I assume the neighbour is using something else to come up with that sort of alleged discrepancy in where the boundary lies. 

Such matters are best (only) resolved between neighbours who share information, understanding and precisely what it is they want to achieve re the boundary position. 

Adverse possession seems unlikely here as 15 inches isn’t going to show up re the registered information as mentioned 
If you can agree then a boundary agreement/determined boundary might be the way to go. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/boundary-agreements-and-determined-boundaries

Land_Registry

Carpetto said:

We bought this property in June last year and don't yet have the deeds to be able to check. 
The property borders open land on 2 sides. Between our fence and then the barbed wire that borders the fields there is a 3 foot strip of land.
We were told 2 versions by the vendors at different times
 Firstly that the strip is part of the property and the boundary ends at the barbed wire. The strip can be accessed to keep tidy (there is a gate in the fence) but cannot be cultivated in order to maintain a gap with the field. Is this a thing? There is nothing in the way of covenants to support this
Secondly that the gap is a separate piece of land in its own right and is not owned by the landowner of the field
We expected to be able to discern the truth from the deeds once we moved in but didn't anticipate the huge delay in getting them. How do we find out

It’s not ‘thing’ I’ve heard before. 

Check the registered information. That doesn’t take long but if it is then they’re querying it after getting it I suspect 
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

barbary96

Hi,
I would appreciate an update on my expedited application for Title GR223518. This is for adverse possession of a small strip of land which was enclosed by the builders with a wall and fence and has always been part of the garden since house built in 1999. I am selling the house hence the expedited application. Can you tell me if the builders, Redrow, have been contacted yet? I presumed someone from ordnance survey would need to visit but I have not had any contact from them.
Many thanks,

Regards,

Barbara Harkis

Land_Registry

barbary96 said:

Hi,
I would appreciate an update on my expedited application for Title GR223518. This is for adverse possession of a small strip of land which was enclosed by the builders with a wall and fence and has always been part of the garden since house built in 1999. I am selling the house hence the expedited application. Can you tell me if the builders, Redrow, have been contacted yet? I presumed someone from ordnance survey would need to visit but I have not had any contact from them.
Many thanks,

The application is with a senior officer who must consider the claim and what is required next such as a site visit and/or notifications as you suggest 
Hopefully that should happen soon 

Carpetto

Land_Registry said:

Carpetto said:

We bought this property in June last year and don't yet have the deeds to be able to check. 
The property borders open land on 2 sides. Between our fence and then the barbed wire that borders the fields there is a 3 foot strip of land.
We were told 2 versions by the vendors at different times
 Firstly that the strip is part of the property and the boundary ends at the barbed wire. The strip can be accessed to keep tidy (there is a gate in the fence) but cannot be cultivated in order to maintain a gap with the field. Is this a thing? There is nothing in the way of covenants to support this
Secondly that the gap is a separate piece of land in its own right and is not owned by the landowner of the field
We expected to be able to discern the truth from the deeds once we moved in but didn't anticipate the huge delay in getting them. How do we find out

It’s not ‘thing’ I’ve heard before. 

Check the registered information. That doesn’t take long but if it is then they’re querying it after getting it I suspect 
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

I have checked the free registered info. It says last sold in 2018 so my purchase isn't on there. 
I don't understand the second sentence sorry

Land_Registry

Carpetto said:

Land_Registry said:

Carpetto said:

We bought this property in June last year and don't yet have the deeds to be able to check. 
The property borders open land on 2 sides. Between our fence and then the barbed wire that borders the fields there is a 3 foot strip of land.
We were told 2 versions by the vendors at different times
 Firstly that the strip is part of the property and the boundary ends at the barbed wire. The strip can be accessed to keep tidy (there is a gate in the fence) but cannot be cultivated in order to maintain a gap with the field. Is this a thing? There is nothing in the way of covenants to support this
Secondly that the gap is a separate piece of land in its own right and is not owned by the landowner of the field
We expected to be able to discern the truth from the deeds once we moved in but didn't anticipate the huge delay in getting them. How do we find out

It’s not ‘thing’ I’ve heard before. 

Check the registered information. That doesn’t take long but if it is then they’re querying it after getting it I suspect 
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

I have checked the free registered info. It says last sold in 2018 so my purchase isn't on there. 
I don't understand the second sentence sorry

DM me the specific details and issue and I’ll take a closer look. 

Your OP said that it was taking a long time to get the information but as you now know it’s quick. And I therefore thought perhaps they were querying it. 

But your new post suggests you are actually waiting for your purchase to be registered, which makes more sense 

fabs35

Land_Registry said:

fabs35 said:

silvercar said:

fabs35 said:

Hi

We purchased our property in 2018 and it was previously unregistered.

When we registered it, our conveyancing solicitor told us that the title plan outline (i.e. the red line) was determined by looking at the original deeds and the extent of land shown on the title plans for the registered properties on either side. This was then sent to us for approval by comparing it to the physical boundary features.

The couple living next door have sadly passed away and their son is looking to sell their home and is claiming that the position of the fence is incorrect. The fence seems to match what is on the title plan  but he claiming that the true boundary is 15 inches into our garden.

I am hoping someone can help with;

1) The neighbours property was registered (voluntarily) in 2002. Our plan exactly matches their plan (where our boundaries meet). If their title plan is incorrect, did they have a duty to rectify it - so that the first registrations of adjacent properties would have correct boundaries on their respective title plans?

2) When our property was registered in 2018, would the couple living next door have been provided with a copy of our title plan, in order to give them the chance to object/comment?

3) I have been informed by the neighbours at the rear that the fence in question has been in place for at least thirty years. We bought our property when it was going through probate - does adverse possession apply as the previous owners of our property had passed away and we bought it from their children. To complicate matters further, as mentioned above, the land that we would potentially making the claim against is also going through probate and up for sale.

This is what I have found on the LR website...

Adverse possession becomes more complicated in cases where a previous landowner has died. Upon a person’s death, all of their property passes to their estate. This can create a type of trust.

Hope the above is clear.

TIA.




 

Sounds like you registered it in 2018, your neighbour registered their land in 2002. A third party confirms this boundary was in place 30 years ago. The fence matches the deeds. The plans all match.

Along comes the new owner in 2023 and wants to argue about something already registered. Twice. I wouldn't give it time of day.

I completely agree but he is a lawyer (I'm assuming he doesn't specialise in law) and we did consider throwing some money at it  to make it all go away but then we reconsidered and thought perhaps we should stand up to the bully!

15 inches is too small a distance to show on a registration plan. As such I assume the neighbour is using something else to come up with that sort of alleged discrepancy in where the boundary lies. 

Such matters are best (only) resolved between neighbours who share information, understanding and precisely what it is they want to achieve re the boundary position. 

Adverse possession seems unlikely here as 15 inches isn’t going to show up re the registered information as mentioned 
If you can agree then a boundary agreement/determined boundary might be the way to go. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/boundary-agreements-and-determined-boundaries

Thank you Land Registry - please could you answer my 2nd question.

Thank you

Land_Registry

fabs35 said:

Land_Registry said:

fabs35 said:

silvercar said:

fabs35 said:

Hi

We purchased our property in 2018 and it was previously unregistered.

When we registered it, our conveyancing solicitor told us that the title plan outline (i.e. the red line) was determined by looking at the original deeds and the extent of land shown on the title plans for the registered properties on either side. This was then sent to us for approval by comparing it to the physical boundary features.

The couple living next door have sadly passed away and their son is looking to sell their home and is claiming that the position of the fence is incorrect. The fence seems to match what is on the title plan  but he claiming that the true boundary is 15 inches into our garden.

I am hoping someone can help with;

1) The neighbours property was registered (voluntarily) in 2002. Our plan exactly matches their plan (where our boundaries meet). If their title plan is incorrect, did they have a duty to rectify it - so that the first registrations of adjacent properties would have correct boundaries on their respective title plans?

2) When our property was registered in 2018, would the couple living next door have been provided with a copy of our title plan, in order to give them the chance to object/comment?

3) I have been informed by the neighbours at the rear that the fence in question has been in place for at least thirty years. We bought our property when it was going through probate - does adverse possession apply as the previous owners of our property had passed away and we bought it from their children. To complicate matters further, as mentioned above, the land that we would potentially making the claim against is also going through probate and up for sale.

This is what I have found on the LR website...

Adverse possession becomes more complicated in cases where a previous landowner has died. Upon a person’s death, all of their property passes to their estate. This can create a type of trust.

Hope the above is clear.

TIA.




 

Sounds like you registered it in 2018, your neighbour registered their land in 2002. A third party confirms this boundary was in place 30 years ago. The fence matches the deeds. The plans all match.

Along comes the new owner in 2023 and wants to argue about something already registered. Twice. I wouldn't give it time of day.

I completely agree but he is a lawyer (I'm assuming he doesn't specialise in law) and we did consider throwing some money at it  to make it all go away but then we reconsidered and thought perhaps we should stand up to the bully!

15 inches is too small a distance to show on a registration plan. As such I assume the neighbour is using something else to come up with that sort of alleged discrepancy in where the boundary lies. 

Such matters are best (only) resolved between neighbours who share information, understanding and precisely what it is they want to achieve re the boundary position. 

Adverse possession seems unlikely here as 15 inches isn’t going to show up re the registered information as mentioned 
If you can agree then a boundary agreement/determined boundary might be the way to go. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/boundary-agreements-and-determined-boundaries

Thank you Land Registry - please could you answer my 2nd question.

Thank you

No unless your application sought to register land already registered under their title 

fabs35

Land_Registry said:

fabs35 said:

Land_Registry said:

fabs35 said:

silvercar said:

fabs35 said:

Hi

We purchased our property in 2018 and it was previously unregistered.

When we registered it, our conveyancing solicitor told us that the title plan outline (i.e. the red line) was determined by looking at the original deeds and the extent of land shown on the title plans for the registered properties on either side. This was then sent to us for approval by comparing it to the physical boundary features.

The couple living next door have sadly passed away and their son is looking to sell their home and is claiming that the position of the fence is incorrect. The fence seems to match what is on the title plan  but he claiming that the true boundary is 15 inches into our garden.

I am hoping someone can help with;

1) The neighbours property was registered (voluntarily) in 2002. Our plan exactly matches their plan (where our boundaries meet). If their title plan is incorrect, did they have a duty to rectify it - so that the first registrations of adjacent properties would have correct boundaries on their respective title plans?

2) When our property was registered in 2018, would the couple living next door have been provided with a copy of our title plan, in order to give them the chance to object/comment?

3) I have been informed by the neighbours at the rear that the fence in question has been in place for at least thirty years. We bought our property when it was going through probate - does adverse possession apply as the previous owners of our property had passed away and we bought it from their children. To complicate matters further, as mentioned above, the land that we would potentially making the claim against is also going through probate and up for sale.

This is what I have found on the LR website...

Adverse possession becomes more complicated in cases where a previous landowner has died. Upon a person’s death, all of their property passes to their estate. This can create a type of trust.

Hope the above is clear.

TIA.




 

Sounds like you registered it in 2018, your neighbour registered their land in 2002. A third party confirms this boundary was in place 30 years ago. The fence matches the deeds. The plans all match.

Along comes the new owner in 2023 and wants to argue about something already registered. Twice. I wouldn't give it time of day.

I completely agree but he is a lawyer (I'm assuming he doesn't specialise in law) and we did consider throwing some money at it  to make it all go away but then we reconsidered and thought perhaps we should stand up to the bully!

15 inches is too small a distance to show on a registration plan. As such I assume the neighbour is using something else to come up with that sort of alleged discrepancy in where the boundary lies. 

Such matters are best (only) resolved between neighbours who share information, understanding and precisely what it is they want to achieve re the boundary position. 

Adverse possession seems unlikely here as 15 inches isn’t going to show up re the registered information as mentioned 
If you can agree then a boundary agreement/determined boundary might be the way to go. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/boundary-agreements-and-determined-boundaries

Thank you Land Registry - please could you answer my 2nd question.

Thank you

No unless your application sought to register land already registered under their title 

Understood - many thanks