Land Registry questions

Simon321

Land_Registry said:

Simon321 said:

Hi LR

We are in the process of buying a house (and selling our flat).
We are almost ready for completion (and so are our buyers).
There is only an outstanding issue with one of the proprietor's name in the title register.
The property title lists two owners, a married couple, both deceased, the wife 2y ago and her husband 1y ago.
The administrator of the estate is now his son.
The death certificate of the deceased wife is in her full name "FIRST NAME, MIDDLE NAME, SURNAME" while in the tile register it is only "MIDDLE NAME, SURNAME".

The sellers conveyancer submitted a AP1 application, expedited, in December, Land registry came back with a rejection only this week, stating that "the account that the application was lodged with is incorrect" and LR suggested to hand in another application and expedite it, but the sellers conveyancer is concerned this will not be done in a timely manner and suggests to just go ahead with completion (the conveyoncers suggested this already beforehand and needed to convinced handing in a AP1 application).
 
Our solicitor says the title is defective and the sellers conveyancer needs to get it amended (from AP1) before completion.
The sellers conveyancer says the title is is not defective and this can be easily sorted, stating "a statutory declaration is simply needed to clarify the position".

Everything is not going forward at them moment and we running out of time and feel a bit helpless and don't know which side is right.
What is your opinion?
Obviously there are many variables  but as last resort would be LR satisfied with a statutory declaration like the sellers conveyancer suggests, or what scenarios are common?

Many thanks

There’s no common scenarios but discrepancies in names do occur and must be resolved in some way. Where such discrepancies arise it’s down to the parties involved and their conveyancers to resolve 
Often a conveyancer can certify that the people as named are one and the same but that depends on the conveyancer being 100% satisfied that is the case. 

If not then then options exist including applying to update the register with birth/marriage certificates or driving license or passport - all official documents confirming names 
I don’t follow the rejection information plus timely manner issue - if we have an application submitted correctly and expedited then it will be processed in a timely manner/quickly. Where the issue tends to be with the evidence lodged and if that’s not in order/good enough then a delay can arise 
So two things to get straight/consider with the first and most important being the name variation and confirmation that the registered owner is the same as the deceased person as evidenced by death certificate/probate for example. 

The second is whether the register needs amending first or whether you can complete without doing that. That second point may not always be an issue if point one is 100% covered off. 

Hi LR
Thank you for your answer!
There is finally some more progress on our sellers solicitor side.
Supposedly they handed in another application to amend the name in the tile.
The solicitors lack communication and with the previous application rejected, we are very cautious.
Could you check if there is an expedited application against title number NGL229656, please?
Also, if possible, could you see what the issue with the previous application was, why there've been delays and why was it rejected?
Many thanks, very appreciated!

Land_Registry

NAC321 said:

Hi LR,

I have a leasehold terraced house. There is a right of way of access as noted on the leasehold (not the title registry) down the top left hand side of the garden, which would have been for access to an outdoor WC (noted on the leasehold diagram but no longer in place). The WCs (two, one for my property and one of the left hand side property) would have been in the garden of the left hand side property, so on the title deeds there is a rectangle inputting into their garden from my garden (to denote ownership of the toilet I suppose that is no longer in situ).

The neighbours wish to update the land registry. Firstly I think they wish to amend the boundary to reclaim what would have been the WC of my property’s land. I have no issue with this as their fence currently blocks my access of this land, and it’s such a small amount of land awkwardly situated I (or any future owners) wouldn’t wish to claim it, so I wouldn’t be concerned about it affecting the value of the house or causing issues in future. I wouldn’t though of course contribute to any legal costs to get this updated! I imagine any claim would succeed under adverse possession in any case. Although presumably the freeholder and my mortgage lender would need to get involved. 

What I’m more concerned about however is they appear to be misunderstanding that the right of way access to the (non existing) toilets is actually “shared land” - currently they store their bins there (along mine).

My main concern is them potentially making an application to land registry to claim the right of way land, either saying it’s shared between the two properties or perhaps even an outright claim expanding the WC land. 

There are a few questions that arise that I’d like your insight please:

1. What is the process for boundary applications - if they made an application to ask land registry to note the right of way land is “shared”, would I be notified, so I could object? My concern is as I am the leaseholder not the freeholder I may not be notified of any boundary change requests? 
2. Is it even possible for land to be shared the way they think it is between two or more properties/titles? 
3. Is it possible to remove the right of way to the toilet, given it’s no longer in place? I presume it’s a non starter if they don’t consent, but if they did then what would be the process for this (I assume at this point a solicitor may need to be involved…)

I’m hoping it can be resolved fairly amicably but having the knowledge about how these things are processed if a claim was made will enable me to prepare my engagement with them to hopefully clarify their misunderstanding on a right of way not being the same as shared land. 

1. You seem to be mixing rights (easements) with boundaries so it’s not too clear as a right doesn’t change a boundary. You’re right about the FH/LH aspect being a likely issue too. 
2. Land can be shared re a right of way but there’s only one legal owner of the actual land 
3. Yes, rights can be removed if everyone consents or abandoned if the right was very specific re purpose and that purpose no longer exists. 

I think you really do need legal advice here though as you’re mixing land ownership and rights. And claiming land is complex in law and one of the basics is you don’t do it with the consent of the actual legal owner. 

You should be able to get an understanding of what’s what by reading your lease and then the registered information for each property/tenure. But it’s really legal advice you need here re what your options are and also what rights the neighbour has 

Land_Registry

propertyrental said:

Removal of an erroneous restriction.

The title of the property I'm buying has 2 restrictions, in slightly different names, one of which all agree was entered in error.

2 RESTRICTION:-Except under an Order of the Registrar no transfer or

lease is to be registered unless the transferee or lessee (as the case

may be) has produced a certificate of compliance with the provisions of

paragraph 17 of Schedule 3 to a Transfer dated 17 December 1999 made

between ABC Limited (1) XYX Limited (2) and John & Johanna Smith (3).

3 RESTRICTION:-Except under an Order of the Registrar no transfer or

lease is to be registered unless the transferee or lessee (as the case

may be) has produced a certificate of compliance with the provisions of

clause 17 of Schedule 3 to the Transfer dated 17 December 1999 made
between ABC South-East Limited (1) XYZ (2) and John & Johanna Smith(3)
from the Management Company or their appointed Managing Agents.

The options seem to be

1. For the Managing Agents to submit form RX2 to HMLR confirming that this is a duplicate restriction which does not apply and should be removed.
2. For my solicitor to accept the completed form RX2 duly signed and then to lodge it with HMLR together with his application for change of owner.

Option 1 may take 5 - 6 months and the chain and my purchase would collapse. Is this correct?

Option 2 would leave me vulnerable in case the LR raised objections and did not remove the restriction.  Is this correct?

Form RX2 is used to disapply/modify a restriction. It’s not used to withdraw it (RX4) or cancel it (RX3)
2. Could leave you vulnerable and if you are buying with a mortgage your lender’s not going to allow you to got option 2 with a form RX4 (or 3) I suspect. 

Option 1 is the likely option here and once submitted a request to expedite is made. If it’s an RX4 and all in order then it could be processed within 2 weeks. 

There’s an option 3 if there was a LR error in putting both restrictions on but your post suggests both were applied for so the error’s not ours 

Land_Registry

Simon321 said:

Land_Registry said:

Simon321 said:

Hi LR

We are in the process of buying a house (and selling our flat).
We are almost ready for completion (and so are our buyers).
There is only an outstanding issue with one of the proprietor's name in the title register.
The property title lists two owners, a married couple, both deceased, the wife 2y ago and her husband 1y ago.
The administrator of the estate is now his son.
The death certificate of the deceased wife is in her full name "FIRST NAME, MIDDLE NAME, SURNAME" while in the tile register it is only "MIDDLE NAME, SURNAME".

The sellers conveyancer submitted a AP1 application, expedited, in December, Land registry came back with a rejection only this week, stating that "the account that the application was lodged with is incorrect" and LR suggested to hand in another application and expedite it, but the sellers conveyancer is concerned this will not be done in a timely manner and suggests to just go ahead with completion (the conveyoncers suggested this already beforehand and needed to convinced handing in a AP1 application).
 
Our solicitor says the title is defective and the sellers conveyancer needs to get it amended (from AP1) before completion.
The sellers conveyancer says the title is is not defective and this can be easily sorted, stating "a statutory declaration is simply needed to clarify the position".

Everything is not going forward at them moment and we running out of time and feel a bit helpless and don't know which side is right.
What is your opinion?
Obviously there are many variables  but as last resort would be LR satisfied with a statutory declaration like the sellers conveyancer suggests, or what scenarios are common?

Many thanks

There’s no common scenarios but discrepancies in names do occur and must be resolved in some way. Where such discrepancies arise it’s down to the parties involved and their conveyancers to resolve 
Often a conveyancer can certify that the people as named are one and the same but that depends on the conveyancer being 100% satisfied that is the case. 

If not then then options exist including applying to update the register with birth/marriage certificates or driving license or passport - all official documents confirming names 
I don’t follow the rejection information plus timely manner issue - if we have an application submitted correctly and expedited then it will be processed in a timely manner/quickly. Where the issue tends to be with the evidence lodged and if that’s not in order/good enough then a delay can arise 
So two things to get straight/consider with the first and most important being the name variation and confirmation that the registered owner is the same as the deceased person as evidenced by death certificate/probate for example. 

The second is whether the register needs amending first or whether you can complete without doing that. That second point may not always be an issue if point one is 100% covered off. 

Hi LR
Thank you for your answer!
There is finally some more progress on our sellers solicitor side.
Supposedly they handed in another application to amend the name in the tile.
The solicitors lack communication and with the previous application rejected, we are very cautious.
Could you check if there is an expedited application against title number NGL229656, please?
Also, if possible, could you see what the issue with the previous application was, why there've been delays and why was it rejected?
Many thanks, very appreciated!

The new application was submitted 8th Feb. They requested expedition via the application so that won’t have been seen. I’ll ask colleagues to expedite it now we are aware. 

The previous application was incomplete 

Thor22

Thor22 said:

Hello land registry 
Could you please see there's been any updates on SL271114 as not getting anything from solicitors
Thank you 

Hello land registry 
Any update on being processed or how much longer
Completion was nov 2020 
LR recieved may 2021 (lodged) 
LR said 14 months to complete
Solicitors said give 18 months from completion date (Nov 2020)
Been a lot longer than that been 28 months since completion 
Surley should of been done by now
All I get is waiting to be processed is there a problem

Land_Registry

Thor22 said:

Thor22 said:

Hello land registry 
Could you please see there's been any updates on SL271114 as not getting anything from solicitors
Thank you 

Hello land registry 
Any update on being processed or how much longer
Completion was nov 2020 
LR recieved may 2021 (lodged) 
LR said 14 months to complete
Solicitors said give 18 months from completion date (Nov 2020)
Been a lot longer than that been 28 months since completion 
Surley should of been done by now
All I get is waiting to be processed is there a problem

Still waiting to be processed. We won’t know if there’s a problem until that happens. 

Hopefully it will be processed in the coming weeks as it has waited a long time. 

Your purchase is protected so please continue to bear with us 

Simon321

Land_Registry said:

Simon321 said:

Land_Registry said:

Simon321 said:

Hi LR

We are in the process of buying a house (and selling our flat).
We are almost ready for completion (and so are our buyers).
There is only an outstanding issue with one of the proprietor's name in the title register.
The property title lists two owners, a married couple, both deceased, the wife 2y ago and her husband 1y ago.
The administrator of the estate is now his son.
The death certificate of the deceased wife is in her full name "FIRST NAME, MIDDLE NAME, SURNAME" while in the tile register it is only "MIDDLE NAME, SURNAME".

The sellers conveyancer submitted a AP1 application, expedited, in December, Land registry came back with a rejection only this week, stating that "the account that the application was lodged with is incorrect" and LR suggested to hand in another application and expedite it, but the sellers conveyancer is concerned this will not be done in a timely manner and suggests to just go ahead with completion (the conveyoncers suggested this already beforehand and needed to convinced handing in a AP1 application).
 
Our solicitor says the title is defective and the sellers conveyancer needs to get it amended (from AP1) before completion.
The sellers conveyancer says the title is is not defective and this can be easily sorted, stating "a statutory declaration is simply needed to clarify the position".

Everything is not going forward at them moment and we running out of time and feel a bit helpless and don't know which side is right.
What is your opinion?
Obviously there are many variables  but as last resort would be LR satisfied with a statutory declaration like the sellers conveyancer suggests, or what scenarios are common?

Many thanks

There’s no common scenarios but discrepancies in names do occur and must be resolved in some way. Where such discrepancies arise it’s down to the parties involved and their conveyancers to resolve 
Often a conveyancer can certify that the people as named are one and the same but that depends on the conveyancer being 100% satisfied that is the case. 

If not then then options exist including applying to update the register with birth/marriage certificates or driving license or passport - all official documents confirming names 
I don’t follow the rejection information plus timely manner issue - if we have an application submitted correctly and expedited then it will be processed in a timely manner/quickly. Where the issue tends to be with the evidence lodged and if that’s not in order/good enough then a delay can arise 
So two things to get straight/consider with the first and most important being the name variation and confirmation that the registered owner is the same as the deceased person as evidenced by death certificate/probate for example. 

The second is whether the register needs amending first or whether you can complete without doing that. That second point may not always be an issue if point one is 100% covered off. 

Hi LR
Thank you for your answer!
There is finally some more progress on our sellers solicitor side.
Supposedly they handed in another application to amend the name in the tile.
The solicitors lack communication and with the previous application rejected, we are very cautious.
Could you check if there is an expedited application against title number NGL229656, please?
Also, if possible, could you see what the issue with the previous application was, why there've been delays and why was it rejected?
Many thanks, very appreciated!

The new application was submitted 8th Feb. They requested expedition via the application so that won’t have been seen. I’ll ask colleagues to expedite it now we are aware. 

The previous application was incomplete 

Thank you for the update, this is really a relief to us. Now hopefully the new application was handed in correctly so it can be finally completed. Thanks again! 

beeah13

Hi @Land_Registry

Would it be possible to have an update on the progress of an expedited adverse possession claim please. Ref: 230112-1579015 Title Number WA741067
 
We didn't receive any communication during the 10 working days stated on the initial email but are hoping to find out if the letter has been sent out to the registered owners yet please?

Thank you

Land_Registry

beeah13 said:

Hi @Land_Registry

Would it be possible to have an update on the progress of an expedited adverse possession claim please. Ref: 230112-1579015 Title Number WA741067
 
We didn't receive any communication during the 10 working days stated on the initial email but are hoping to find out if the letter has been sent out to the registered owners yet please?

Thank you

The application is still being considered to decide on what the next steps are. That would usually include a site visit/survey first but that’s to be decided. Hopefully you’ll know more this week. 

(CYM860947)

CastleGrayskull

Hi @Land_Registry

I’m concerned about a Title change that’s dragging on and would appreciate your angle on this: 

Title #: EGL571711

A TR1 application to register a transfer in property ownership from myself and my parents to me alone was submitted on 6th May 2022. The Title has remained unchanged ever since.

The only movement was in November when the Land Registry requested that solicitors submit a Certificate of Compliance from the leasehold property management company. This was uploaded by solicitors to the Land Registry application on 15th November. Since then solicitors have said that the application is still pending and that the ‘estimated completion date’ is ‘exceeded’.

Is this normal? Is it normal that I’ve heard nothing else and we’re over nine months in? - I expected that the Title would be changed soon after the request for further info, but no change and all quiet with the LR.

I need the Title change more than ever in order to sell the property due to my disability becoming incompatible with my living circumstances: I am autistic and the actions of neighbors and management in recent months is taking its toll on my health.