Land Registry questions

Land_Registry

tanmich said:

We have just sold a property belonging to my late brother in law, the buyer was one of his friends. We had no options as the home was about to be repossessed by the lender therefore we had limited time.

We paid off two of the charges but the third one still remains, this was a charge for an overdraft on a current account with Northern Rock.
Both ourselves and our solicitor have tried to pay this charge but have had no success, Virgin Money did locate the the account but said it was closed in 2010 and written off, NRAM said there is no such account on their books.

The buyer owes the estate a large sum of money from a flat that my brother in law sold to him 2 months before his death well below the market price, this is now a major debt to the estate.
Buyer now states that the debt will be paid when he renovates and remortgages the property within the next 6 months.

The question is with a charge on the property can he remortgage or will he use this as an excuse to never pay the debt back

The question if he can remortgage with a charge on the property would be for the new lender to consider. It depends on if they are willing to lend with someone else already having secured a charge on the title.  

Chuggybang

Hi @Land_Registry

Please can you advise the process I would need to take to establish the dates a house acquired additional land AND when the titles were amalgamated in to 1 title? Thanks a million.

Land_Registry

Chuggybang said:

Hi @Land_Registry

Please can you advise the process I would need to take to establish the dates a house acquired additional land AND when the titles were amalgamated in to 1 title? Thanks a million.

Submit the specific title number details and what it is you are trying to establish using our Contact form. Our Support team will then consider, check and reply to advise as appropriate. You may need to apply for copies but they’ll explain that as appropriate 
https://customerhelp.landregistry.gov.uk/guide-page-external/?stepid=2b31bc48-eb96-eb11-b1ac-002248413956

shiraz99

Would someone please explain in layman terms the following in my title deeds:

"TOGETHER with the right for the Purchaser and his successors in title and other the owner or owners for the time being of the property hereby conveyed to the joint and common user of the sewers and drains as now constructed for the use of the property hereby conveyed and the adjoining messuage and premises on the South Western side thereof and the right to enter upon such adjoining property for the purpose of cleansing and repairing the said sewers and drains the Purchaser and the owner or owners of such adjoining messuage and premises paying and contributing an equal share of the expense of keeping such sewers and drains in repair and cleansed TOGETHER also with a right for the Purchaser and his successors in title in common with the Vendor and his successors in title and all persons claiming under them to pass or repass with or without horses carts and carriages over and along the full length and width of XXXXXX Road aforesaid and to use all sewers and drains now or hereafter laid thereunder and for all and every other needful purpose RESERVING NEVERTHELESS unto the Vendor and his successors in title and all other persons claiming under them at all times hereafter the right of using the moiety hereby conveyed of XXXXXX Road aforesaid as a horse carriage drift and foot way and of laying and using therein or thereunder sewers and drains and gas water or other pipes and for all and every other needful purpose."

SDLT_Geek

shiraz99 said:

Would someone please explain in layman terms the following in my title deeds:
"TOGETHER with the right for the Purchaser and his successors in title and other the owner or owners for the time being of the property hereby conveyed to the joint and common user of the sewers and drains as now constructed for the use of the property hereby conveyed and the adjoining messuage and premises on the South Western side thereof and the right to enter upon such adjoining property for the purpose of cleansing and repairing the said sewers and drains the Purchaser and the owner or owners of such adjoining messuage and premises paying and contributing an equal share of the expense of keeping such sewers and drains in repair and cleansed
This means that two houses, the one referred to being conveyed (I assume your property) and the one to the southwest, were sharing sewers and drains.  The owners of your property can:
   use the sewers and drains
   go next door to clean and repair the drains
The costs of repairing and cleaning the sewers and drains are to be shared equally.
  
TOGETHER also with a right for the Purchaser and his successors in title in common with the Vendor and his successors in title and all persons claiming under them to pass or repass with or without horses carts and carriages over and along the full length and width of XXXXXX Road aforesaid and to use all sewers and drains now or hereafter laid thereunder and for all and every other needful purpose
This is fairly clear I would have thought, but would be fairly irrelevant if the road has been adopted as highway since.

RESERVING NEVERTHELESS unto the Vendor and his successors in title and all other persons claiming under them at all times hereafter the right of using the moiety hereby conveyed of XXXXXX Road aforesaid as a horse carriage drift and foot way and of laying and using therein or thereunder sewers and drains and gas water or other pipes and for all and every other needful purpose."
This suggests that your property includes ownership of half ("moiety") of the road, but rights are reserved for other properties to use that half of the road as a right of way and for services under it.  But perhaps it has been adopted since. 

Comments in bold above.
As ever though, context is key to understanding the meaning of legal documents.

shiraz99

SDLT_Geek said:

shiraz99 said:

Would someone please explain in layman terms the following in my title deeds:
"TOGETHER with the right for the Purchaser and his successors in title and other the owner or owners for the time being of the property hereby conveyed to the joint and common user of the sewers and drains as now constructed for the use of the property hereby conveyed and the adjoining messuage and premises on the South Western side thereof and the right to enter upon such adjoining property for the purpose of cleansing and repairing the said sewers and drains the Purchaser and the owner or owners of such adjoining messuage and premises paying and contributing an equal share of the expense of keeping such sewers and drains in repair and cleansed
This means that two houses, the one referred to being conveyed (I assume your property) and the one to the southwest, were sharing sewers and drains.  The owners of your property can:
   use the sewers and drains
   go next door to clean and repair the drains
The costs of repairing and cleaning the sewers and drains are to be shared equally.
  
TOGETHER also with a right for the Purchaser and his successors in title in common with the Vendor and his successors in title and all persons claiming under them to pass or repass with or without horses carts and carriages over and along the full length and width of XXXXXX Road aforesaid and to use all sewers and drains now or hereafter laid thereunder and for all and every other needful purpose
This is fairly clear I would have thought, but would be fairly irrelevant if the road has been adopted as highway since.

RESERVING NEVERTHELESS unto the Vendor and his successors in title and all other persons claiming under them at all times hereafter the right of using the moiety hereby conveyed of XXXXXX Road aforesaid as a horse carriage drift and foot way and of laying and using therein or thereunder sewers and drains and gas water or other pipes and for all and every other needful purpose."
This suggests that your property includes ownership of half ("moiety") of the road, but rights are reserved for other properties to use that half of the road as a right of way and for services under it.  But perhaps it has been adopted since. 

Comments in bold above.
As ever though, context is key to understanding the meaning of legal documents.

Thanks for that, I wasn't too bothered about the road part as it's been long adopted, the rights in the Title date back to 1926, presumably when the property was first built. Most of the properties are detached and every two properties share sewage drains where the main access/manhole cover is on one of the properties (mine in this case).

My neighbours Title has a similar right conveyed to them referring to premises on their North Eastern side (presumably my property). so it sort of makes sense that there is a right and agreement to access and share maintenance costs of the drains, although by now I think it would be local water authority's responsibility given it's a shared sewage system. Odd to see it in writing as you don't always see this.

Land_Registry

Couple of things to add and maybe worth researching further, if you want to. 

First, when a road is adopted the local authority effectively adopt the top few inches - the legal presumptions re legal ownership/boundaries re public roads is rarely fully 7nderstood 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/land-registry-plans-boundaries/land-registry-plans-boundaries-practice-guide-40-supplement-3#legal-presumptions
Secondly, on site drainage is rarely the utility company’s responsibility with regards maintenance. Yes re actual water out and water in but the actual drains aren’t usually their responsibility until you leave the legally owned site. 

So you can find such rights/easements in play for properties although often contained in filed deeds nowadays rather than set out on a register in this way - historically if less than 250 words we’d add to register in full as in those days we had register cards/typists 

fabs35

Hi

We purchased our property in 2018 and it was previously unregistered.

When we registered it, our conveyancing solicitor told us that the title plan outline (i.e. the red line) was determined by looking at the original deeds and the extent of land shown on the title plans for the registered properties on either side. This was then sent to us for approval by comparing it to the physical boundary features.

The couple living next door have sadly passed away and their son is looking to sell their home and is claiming that the position of the fence is incorrect. The fence seems to match what is on the title plan  but he claiming that the true boundary is 15 inches into our garden.

I am hoping someone can help with;

1) The neighbours property was registered (voluntarily) in 2002. Our plan exactly matches their plan (where our boundaries meet). If their title plan is incorrect, did they have a duty to rectify it - so that the first registrations of adjacent properties would have correct boundaries on their respective title plans?

2) When our property was registered in 2018, would the couple living next door have been provided with a copy of our title plan, in order to give them the chance to object/comment?

3) I have been informed by the neighbours at the rear that the fence in question has been in place for at least thirty years. We bought our property when it was going through probate - does adverse possession apply as the previous owners of our property had passed away and we bought it from their children. To complicate matters further, as mentioned above, the land that we would potentially making the claim against is also going through probate and up for sale.

This is what I have found on the LR website...

Adverse possession becomes more complicated in cases where a previous landowner has died. Upon a person’s death, all of their property passes to their estate. This can create a type of trust.

Hope the above is clear.

TIA.




 

Carpetto

We bought this property in June last year and don't yet have the deeds to be able to check. 
The property borders open land on 2 sides. Between our fence and then the barbed wire that borders the fields there is a 3 foot strip of land.
We were told 2 versions by the vendors at different times
 Firstly that the strip is part of the property and the boundary ends at the barbed wire. The strip can be accessed to keep tidy (there is a gate in the fence) but cannot be cultivated in order to maintain a gap with the field. Is this a thing? There is nothing in the way of covenants to support this
Secondly that the gap is a separate piece of land in its own right and is not owned by the landowner of the field
We expected to be able to discern the truth from the deeds once we moved in but didn't anticipate the huge delay in getting them. How do we find out

silvercar

fabs35 said:

Hi

We purchased our property in 2018 and it was previously unregistered.

When we registered it, our conveyancing solicitor told us that the title plan outline (i.e. the red line) was determined by looking at the original deeds and the extent of land shown on the title plans for the registered properties on either side. This was then sent to us for approval by comparing it to the physical boundary features.

The couple living next door have sadly passed away and their son is looking to sell their home and is claiming that the position of the fence is incorrect. The fence seems to match what is on the title plan  but he claiming that the true boundary is 15 inches into our garden.

I am hoping someone can help with;

1) The neighbours property was registered (voluntarily) in 2002. Our plan exactly matches their plan (where our boundaries meet). If their title plan is incorrect, did they have a duty to rectify it - so that the first registrations of adjacent properties would have correct boundaries on their respective title plans?

2) When our property was registered in 2018, would the couple living next door have been provided with a copy of our title plan, in order to give them the chance to object/comment?

3) I have been informed by the neighbours at the rear that the fence in question has been in place for at least thirty years. We bought our property when it was going through probate - does adverse possession apply as the previous owners of our property had passed away and we bought it from their children. To complicate matters further, as mentioned above, the land that we would potentially making the claim against is also going through probate and up for sale.

This is what I have found on the LR website...

Adverse possession becomes more complicated in cases where a previous landowner has died. Upon a person’s death, all of their property passes to their estate. This can create a type of trust.

Hope the above is clear.

TIA.




 

Sounds like you registered it in 2018, your neighbour registered their land in 2002. A third party confirms this boundary was in place 30 years ago. The fence matches the deeds. The plans all match.

Along comes the new owner in 2023 and wants to argue about something already registered. Twice. I wouldn't give it time of day.