Land Registry questions

Trooper21

Land_Registry said:

Trooper21 said:

Hi LR

I just wanted to follow up on another post about ROW on maps as we have some within our fields and some between fields that don't show on our title map outlined in red.

Is this because it's a public access issue? We wondered as for all intents and purposes it does not look like it is ours, but it is on our deeds. I just wondered as to the rhyme or reason behind it.

When we asked we were told it was with regard to 'passing the title' because I think different landowners own different parts of said track/bridleway.

We don’t show public rights of way on the title plan. If there are private rights granted over the land then these would normally be referred to on the register and May then appear on the title plan also. 

How they are registered and shown will depend on a number of factors including when the registration took place and/or the wider details/length of wording whereby they were granted/reserved 

Hia

So, if they aren't registered by a boundary line in red as they are a public right of way - why are they conveyed at all as part of the deeds for landowners? 

And only referred to, but without with a boundary line that people can see? What is the purpose of the conveyance of rights to ROW etc if it isn't viewed as ownership/boundary or even land registration?

The private rights are are referred to, but where do I get clarity on the wording and meaning - is this something LR can provide or my solicitor?

Essentially we are having conversations like

Us: We are the landowners for that footpath/bridleway. It's part of our land. Please don't park, obstruct...you get the picture.

Them: No you are not, it's not on your land registry maps.It's none of your business. It's public, public means it is not yours.

Us: No they are outlined on our deeds - as easements. Rights of Way are not on the title plan. We need to provide access.

Them: Well they aren't yours, they are public right of way. It's the councils job to sort them out. Not yours, who do you think you are.

Us: Erm...

There are increasingly tricky with conversations like this. Whilst we feel reasonably happy about the clarity of the deeds, obviously conveying this to others becomes tricky if there isn't a nice map with pretty colours and lines to point them to. Just complicated words referencing a blue line online.

We've been told (not by a conveyancing professional I should add) that technically we own to the middle of the track which is just confusing and not helpful. I understand the local LA being responsible for helping contribute towards the upkeep (if asked) but to what degree does this mean it's ours or theirs. We manage all of it and it's through around 20 acres of land, so we want to be clear on what our rights are for this in terms of access.

Can you help me in my understanding of this please - would the title refernece help?

Jonx999

Hi,

We bought a small part of a field behind our house back in May; our solicitor says the TP1 form was submitted to the Land Registry on 24 May.  Nothing has been heard since.  How long should it take for a TP1 to be processed and the new title register document to be issued?

Thanks.

Land_Registry

V2001 said:

Land_Registry said:

V2001 said:

@Land_Registry when someone lodges a tr1 to you via post, how long does it take for you to acknowledge that you have received this. I don't mean the actual registration process , just confirming you have received the application from solicitor? Is it instant or takes a few days

If by post it’s not acknowledged. A solicitor can check online re receipt and/or their cheques being cleared 
Very few solicitors now lodge a TR1 by post 

If its a signed tr1 form, wet ink(signed by different parties not at solicitors office) won't they have to send it via post or do they have the option to submit it electronically as well? @Land_Registry

In the past where I have submitted forms manuly via post LR have always been able to confirm whether they have received it or, regardless of whether they have started to process it.

If a solicitor has lodged it then it’s electronically or by post - they can check electronically to confirm receipt/progress
If a citizen lodges it then it’s by post - they can Contact Us re receipt/progress if they need to   https://www.gov.uk/guidance/contact-hm-land-registry

Often there’s no need to and a case of waiting for it to be completed 

Land_Registry

Trooper21 said:

Land_Registry said:

Trooper21 said:

Hi LR

I just wanted to follow up on another post about ROW on maps as we have some within our fields and some between fields that don't show on our title map outlined in red.

Is this because it's a public access issue? We wondered as for all intents and purposes it does not look like it is ours, but it is on our deeds. I just wondered as to the rhyme or reason behind it.

When we asked we were told it was with regard to 'passing the title' because I think different landowners own different parts of said track/bridleway.

We don’t show public rights of way on the title plan. If there are private rights granted over the land then these would normally be referred to on the register and May then appear on the title plan also. 

How they are registered and shown will depend on a number of factors including when the registration took place and/or the wider details/length of wording whereby they were granted/reserved 

Hia

So, if they aren't registered by a boundary line in red as they are a public right of way - why are they conveyed at all as part of the deeds for landowners? 

And only referred to, but without with a boundary line that people can see? What is the purpose of the conveyance of rights to ROW etc if it isn't viewed as ownership/boundary or even land registration?

The private rights are are referred to, but where do I get clarity on the wording and meaning - is this something LR can provide or my solicitor?

Essentially we are having conversations like

Us: We are the landowners for that footpath/bridleway. It's part of our land. Please don't park, obstruct...you get the picture.

Them: No you are not, it's not on your land registry maps.It's none of your business. It's public, public means it is not yours.

Us: No they are outlined on our deeds - as easements. Rights of Way are not on the title plan. We need to provide access.

Them: Well they aren't yours, they are public right of way. It's the councils job to sort them out. Not yours, who do you think you are.

Us: Erm...

There are increasingly tricky with conversations like this. Whilst we feel reasonably happy about the clarity of the deeds, obviously conveying this to others becomes tricky if there isn't a nice map with pretty colours and lines to point them to. Just complicated words referencing a blue line online.

We've been told (not by a conveyancing professional I should add) that technically we own to the middle of the track which is just confusing and not helpful. I understand the local LA being responsible for helping contribute towards the upkeep (if asked) but to what degree does this mean it's ours or theirs. We manage all of it and it's through around 20 acres of land, so we want to be clear on what our rights are for this in terms of access.

Can you help me in my understanding of this please - would the title refernece help?

Public rights of way aren’t registered as boundaries. The general boundaries are shown by red edging on a title plan. 

Rights (easements) and boundaries aren’t connected in the way you mention
If the issue is over a public right if way then you’d need to check the local authority records as to where it runs. It won’t appear on the title plan as a public right if way and I’m unaware of any combined plan that would show both registered extent and public rights of way
Unsure why you would own to the middle of a track but it’s possible although the registered information should help get a good idea of where the registered boundary lies. 

If you are managing more land than you own then it’s important to get proper legal advice as to what legal rights that gives you. It’s also worth checking what registered information exists for the ‘extra’ or adjoining land too. 

I’m not going to be able to unravel this for you as whilst we can provide the registered information the issues you are facing are much wider than that. 

Land_Registry

Jonx999 said:

Hi,

We bought a small part of a field behind our house back in May; our solicitor says the TP1 form was submitted to the Land Registry on 24 May.  Nothing has been heard since.  How long should it take for a TP1 to be processed and the new title register document to be issued?

Thanks.

It won’t be processed for some months yet. The purchase is protected but the wait times are lengthy. Your solicitor will let you know once done and they can check on progress for you too 

Trooper21

Land_Registry said:

Trooper21 said:

Land_Registry said:

Trooper21 said:

Hi LR

I just wanted to follow up on another post about ROW on maps as we have some within our fields and some between fields that don't show on our title map outlined in red.

Is this because it's a public access issue? We wondered as for all intents and purposes it does not look like it is ours, but it is on our deeds. I just wondered as to the rhyme or reason behind it.

When we asked we were told it was with regard to 'passing the title' because I think different landowners own different parts of said track/bridleway.

We don’t show public rights of way on the title plan. If there are private rights granted over the land then these would normally be referred to on the register and May then appear on the title plan also. 

How they are registered and shown will depend on a number of factors including when the registration took place and/or the wider details/length of wording whereby they were granted/reserved 

Hia

So, if they aren't registered by a boundary line in red as they are a public right of way - why are they conveyed at all as part of the deeds for landowners? 

And only referred to, but without with a boundary line that people can see? What is the purpose of the conveyance of rights to ROW etc if it isn't viewed as ownership/boundary or even land registration?

The private rights are are referred to, but where do I get clarity on the wording and meaning - is this something LR can provide or my solicitor?

Essentially we are having conversations like

Us: We are the landowners for that footpath/bridleway. It's part of our land. Please don't park, obstruct...you get the picture.

Them: No you are not, it's not on your land registry maps.It's none of your business. It's public, public means it is not yours.

Us: No they are outlined on our deeds - as easements. Rights of Way are not on the title plan. We need to provide access.

Them: Well they aren't yours, they are public right of way. It's the councils job to sort them out. Not yours, who do you think you are.

Us: Erm...

There are increasingly tricky with conversations like this. Whilst we feel reasonably happy about the clarity of the deeds, obviously conveying this to others becomes tricky if there isn't a nice map with pretty colours and lines to point them to. Just complicated words referencing a blue line online.

We've been told (not by a conveyancing professional I should add) that technically we own to the middle of the track which is just confusing and not helpful. I understand the local LA being responsible for helping contribute towards the upkeep (if asked) but to what degree does this mean it's ours or theirs. We manage all of it and it's through around 20 acres of land, so we want to be clear on what our rights are for this in terms of access.

Can you help me in my understanding of this please - would the title refernece help?

Public rights of way aren’t registered as boundaries. The general boundaries are shown by red edging on a title plan. 

Rights (easements) and boundaries aren’t connected in the way you mention
If the issue is over a public right if way then you’d need to check the local authority records as to where it runs. It won’t appear on the title plan as a public right if way and I’m unaware of any combined plan that would show both registered extent and public rights of way
Unsure why you would own to the middle of a track but it’s possible although the registered information should help get a good idea of where the registered boundary lies. 

If you are managing more land than you own then it’s important to get proper legal advice as to what legal rights that gives you. It’s also worth checking what registered information exists for the ‘extra’ or adjoining land too. 

I’m not going to be able to unravel this for you as whilst we can provide the registered information the issues you are facing are much wider than that. 

Thank you.

That is helpful and I am slowly understanding a bit more and I understand the isssues are far reaching.

Perhaps I am over reaching my own responsibilities (as the LA are certainly leaving us to it) but I want to be understand it for myself so I  understanding of how and  WHY certain parts of land are mapped so if I am asked I can answer with confidence.

Perhaps I should just look for job vacancies with LR to scratch this itch!

Land_Registry

Trooper21 said:

Land_Registry said:

Trooper21 said:

Land_Registry said:

Trooper21 said:

Hi LR

I just wanted to follow up on another post about ROW on maps as we have some within our fields and some between fields that don't show on our title map outlined in red.

Is this because it's a public access issue? We wondered as for all intents and purposes it does not look like it is ours, but it is on our deeds. I just wondered as to the rhyme or reason behind it.

When we asked we were told it was with regard to 'passing the title' because I think different landowners own different parts of said track/bridleway.

We don’t show public rights of way on the title plan. If there are private rights granted over the land then these would normally be referred to on the register and May then appear on the title plan also. 

How they are registered and shown will depend on a number of factors including when the registration took place and/or the wider details/length of wording whereby they were granted/reserved 

Hia

So, if they aren't registered by a boundary line in red as they are a public right of way - why are they conveyed at all as part of the deeds for landowners? 

And only referred to, but without with a boundary line that people can see? What is the purpose of the conveyance of rights to ROW etc if it isn't viewed as ownership/boundary or even land registration?

The private rights are are referred to, but where do I get clarity on the wording and meaning - is this something LR can provide or my solicitor?

Essentially we are having conversations like

Us: We are the landowners for that footpath/bridleway. It's part of our land. Please don't park, obstruct...you get the picture.

Them: No you are not, it's not on your land registry maps.It's none of your business. It's public, public means it is not yours.

Us: No they are outlined on our deeds - as easements. Rights of Way are not on the title plan. We need to provide access.

Them: Well they aren't yours, they are public right of way. It's the councils job to sort them out. Not yours, who do you think you are.

Us: Erm...

There are increasingly tricky with conversations like this. Whilst we feel reasonably happy about the clarity of the deeds, obviously conveying this to others becomes tricky if there isn't a nice map with pretty colours and lines to point them to. Just complicated words referencing a blue line online.

We've been told (not by a conveyancing professional I should add) that technically we own to the middle of the track which is just confusing and not helpful. I understand the local LA being responsible for helping contribute towards the upkeep (if asked) but to what degree does this mean it's ours or theirs. We manage all of it and it's through around 20 acres of land, so we want to be clear on what our rights are for this in terms of access.

Can you help me in my understanding of this please - would the title refernece help?

Public rights of way aren’t registered as boundaries. The general boundaries are shown by red edging on a title plan. 

Rights (easements) and boundaries aren’t connected in the way you mention
If the issue is over a public right if way then you’d need to check the local authority records as to where it runs. It won’t appear on the title plan as a public right if way and I’m unaware of any combined plan that would show both registered extent and public rights of way
Unsure why you would own to the middle of a track but it’s possible although the registered information should help get a good idea of where the registered boundary lies. 

If you are managing more land than you own then it’s important to get proper legal advice as to what legal rights that gives you. It’s also worth checking what registered information exists for the ‘extra’ or adjoining land too. 

I’m not going to be able to unravel this for you as whilst we can provide the registered information the issues you are facing are much wider than that. 

Thank you.

That is helpful and I am slowly understanding a bit more and I understand the isssues are far reaching.

Perhaps I am over reaching my own responsibilities (as the LA are certainly leaving us to it) but I want to be understand it for myself so I  understanding of how and  WHY certain parts of land are mapped so if I am asked I can answer with confidence.

Perhaps I should just look for job vacancies with LR to scratch this itch!

I don’t think a job with HMLR will cover it all for you as the basics re what we register on our plans etc is broadly covered by our PG 40 series of supplements 
https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides
Thereafter you are venturing into areas of land law rather than land registration so it’s a much wider understanding both re where a legal boundary may lie as well as what legal impact maintaining an area of land can have especially if others have a right, public or private, over same. 

bernsteingirl

I would be hugely grateful if you could provide me with an update on this application: FC59823. Our application was expedited and I can see something is happening on our listing on the Land Registry site, however it's said the same for several days: "

Tenure: Unavailable

Price Paid/Value Stated Data: No"  Other flats in the (new build) building are listed as Leasehold/Yes. Is it safe to book a valuation for our

 flat yet (we want to staircase), or might it still be weeks/months before we receive confirmation that everything is in order? Thank you for your efforts! 

justcat01

So it appears that the HCA had submitted the discharge request but it "didn't go through" which is random but they've resubmitted it.

@Land_Registry I hope this is it now - have you received any applications/changes for GR390587 and GR394805?

Thanks, Cat

oohcleanitupjohnny

Hi - I'm currently purchasing a house and the seller's solicitors have had to apply to Land Registry to have a charge removed from the title (it is an old mortgage that has been redeemed). Am I, as the buyer of the house, entitled to chase the progress of this application and, if so, could you please let me know how best to go about this? 

Thanks