Housing Association Threatening Injunction

Cheeky_Monkey

PinkMohawk wrote: »

They have already said a few things which clearly communicate that they are covering their own butts should anything happen, yes. But I just keep getting the feeling that they're not being straight with us and that that's exactly it - they're being overly cautious and protecting themselves

Nowhere online nor in the agreement does the Housing Association say you shouldn't fill your home as much as you choose. I would know not to store unstable chemical products, I'm careful with fire safety, electrical cords, etc., we don't smoke... I simply did not consider having a lot of possessions could be anyone else's business in any way whatsoever.

They're not protecting themselves, they are not the ones at risk of being killed by a fire which starts in your flat. Believe it or not, they are trying to protect you, your son and the other residents. I'm quite sure that you don't want to find yourself responsible for the death of other people just because you think you have some god given right to pack your flat to the rafters with flammable items.

You can either get rid of most of it or be evicted - it's your choice. Incidentally, if you are evicted, you are very unlikely to be rehoused.

PinkMohawk

Rambosmum wrote: »

The short answer is yes, you can have an injunction against you and can be evicted for having too much stuff.

I'm a social worker with adults and we work with 'self neglect' cases, most of which are hoarders. NONE of them think they are hoarders (not saying you are, just that saying your not doesn't mean anything). Hoarding - either the mental illness or simply a result of having too much stuff for the space, is a fire risk, which is ultimately what you can be evicted for.


Could you ask friends or family to perhaps store a box each? Can you bin some of it? Sell it or give it away?

You need to have a clear out, you need to get the situation sorted. It's unlikely extra furniture will help the situation.

Also, you say you have an extra person there, any chance they (and their stuff) can move out?

I'm surprised that the HA haven't asked if you'd have an assessment by the fire service if they see it as a fire risk - you could request one directly (and if the fire service feel there's limited risk then that's on your side).

Thanx for your reply, Rambosmum.

No friends and very little family to rely on. Two relations in different households know about this, but haven't offered help and I wouldn't ask.

None of us wish to move out, but we are on Homeswapper in the hope of getting a bigger place with enough bedrooms. Again, time is needed to find someone who wants to downsize and is a match.

I went to the local Fire Service's website to find out if we could even pay to have an assessment - I couldn't find any word that they even give them. Should I email and ask?

We are regularly clearing out and making improvements. But it's just sooooo slow.

elsien

PinkMohawk wrote: »

Hi tacpot12,



The rest of the stuff is mainly art and craft hobby supplies for two people - my son and I. We make cards, wall art, home decor, etc as family gifts, but to be honest, due to problems we've been having, we haven't made stuff in a while,

That's an awful lot of boxes for gifts when in a later post you say you have no friends and very little family to rely on.
Sorry, but on the face of it that would seem to indicate an awful lot of stuff that you really don't need.

Rambosmum

PinkMohawk wrote: »

Thanx for your reply, Rambosmum.

No friends and very little family to rely on. Two relations in different households know about this, but haven't offered help and I wouldn't ask.

None of us wish to move out, but we are on Homeswapper in the hope of getting a bigger place with enough bedrooms. Again, time is needed to find someone who wants to downsize and is a match.

I went to the local Fire Service's website to find out if we could even pay to have an assessment - I couldn't find any word that they even give them. Should I email and ask?

We are regularly clearing out and making improvements. But it's just sooooo slow.

Yes, call and ask.

From reading your other posts, I see that you don't work outside of the home. So no commuting time to add on to your days work.

Due to the seriousness of the situation I think you need to prioritise the sorting. I managed to do my whole house in 3 months. Whilst being out of the house for 10 hours each day.

I found the Konmari method really helpful.

PinkMohawk

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

From my point of view the HA has no standing to obtain a "injunction".

Ask them in writing (sent signed for):

What Part of your tenancy have you breached because "Excessive" is too vague a statement you want them to quote a specific part of your tenancy agreement.

What Policy are they following in order to enforce "Excessive"?

Do they suspect you are a Hoarder?

Do they suspect you of running a business from the property?

Put it plainly that the items they observed are your personal property and that you have already outlined your plan to "organise it".

The HA has a right to inspect their properties, they must give you notice of a minimum of 24hours where there is emergency access needed, but they don't have the right to tell you how to organise your property, like you don't have the right to go into their own homes and tell them to organise their items in their wardrobes.

If they suspect you of being a hoarder then they must prove this the case, just because you have a lot of items does not equate to being a hoarder in order to obtain a Cease and Desist order in order to prevent you from taking in any further items, Then when this is breached they can then issues a section 8 notice of seeking possession of the property upon you.

The same if they suspect you of running a business, They must first prove you are running a business, Simply stating to a judge you have a lot of craft items that one would not normally have unless your running a business is NOT a reason to obtain an eviction, they must first prove the breach of tenancy has occurred in this respect.

So if they cant quote the breach of your tenancy then tell them any more letters regarding the issue will be met with a official letter of complaint (following their complaints procedure to the letter) for harassment if your not satisfied then you can opt to go to the ombudsman.

Hi atrixblue.-MFR-

Thank you for your reply.

Your thinking on this is much the same as my natural leaning has been all along. It just doesn't feel right. At the same time, I swing backwards and forwards from that thinking, to thoughts like, "Well, it IS proven that a full property produces a hotter and faster fire, so could they just say we're being a danger to others should a fire break out and that's that...?"

I love your letter idea, but just worry that, if we're wrong, it will just push them into trying for an injunction faster...

PinkMohawk

elsien wrote: »

That's an awful lot of boxes for gifts when in a later post you say you have no friends and very little family to rely on.
Sorry, but on the face of it that would seem to indicate an awful lot of stuff that you really don't need.

Oh, I didn't say we can't get rid of lots more in the entire flat. But I need the time to do so , and I feel we've taken so long already that I worry they will do whatever they might be able to do. So it would be useful to know right now if they can or not. The work of decluttering and organising will continue regardless, because we want to gain back the space to enjoy being creative again.

PinkMohawk

Rambosmum wrote: »

Yes, call and ask.

From reading your other posts, I see that you don't work outside of the home. So no commuting time to add on to your days work.

Due to the seriousness of the situation I think you need to prioritise the sorting. I managed to do my whole house in 3 months. Whilst being out of the house for 10 hours each day.

I found the Konmari method really helpful.

Yes, I like the Konmari approach, but it is part of what makes it so slow. I feel like if I can get everything from the same category together first, I can donate/keep/throw more efficiently and accurately. That's pretty much what I'm doing. But now I've hit my craft and hobbies category and it's so huge that it's difficult to even think of exactly which categories to use to break it down into! So many things cross over...!

barbiedoll

Action figures? How old is your son? I know that he may well be a "collector" but if he doesn't have the luxury of space, then his (or your?) stuff will have to find a new home. As for a music collection, this can be stored on a device which will take up very little space.

I sympathise with the HA to be honest, and after Grenfell, most local authorities are taking steps to deal with the issue, and rightly so. People who visit those who live in flats (healthcare providers etc) have been asked to check if occupiers have smoke alarms, knowledge of exit routes and so on. And to be honest, if I lived in the same block as you and I knew that you had stacks and stacks of highly combustible goods, I may well be making noises about it too.

It's time to tackle this....one box at a time. I do have an idea of your dilemma, I have a very close family member who has belongings stashed in everyone else's home, I know it can be hard to let go of stuff, in case "it comes in handy one day". But it's either that, or possible eviction.

Don't think the HA are going to let this go. They can introduce new legislation and new tenancy terms if they need to, so don't rely on your tenancy agreement, if you're creating a fire hazard, they'll get you out on something like "antisocial behaviour"....there's nothing more antisocial than burning down your neighbours' homes.

Norman_Castle

PinkMohawk wrote: »

and we also need to go into older boxes in other storage areas (alcoves in the hallway) and see what we can donate or throw away, to make room for the new furniture/stuff.

Do that tomorrow.

Rambosmum

PinkMohawk wrote: »

Hi atrixblue.-MFR-

Thank you for your reply.

Your thinking on this is much the same as my natural leaning has been all along. It just doesn't feel right. At the same time, I swing backwards and forwards from that thinking, to thoughts like, "Well, it IS proven that a full property produces a hotter and faster fire, so could they just say we're being a danger to others should a fire break out and that's that...?"

I love your letter idea, but just worry that, if we're wrong, it will just push them into trying for an injunction faster...

HA's can and do evict on excessive content of properties. What they are doing with you is giving you opportunity to fix it before going for the injunction. I suspect after Grenfell, it'll easier to get such injunctions too, and that HAs will act faster than they may have previously.