Housing Association Threatening Injunction

PinkMohawk

Hello all,

We rent a ground floor flat from a Housing Association and are secure tenants (I've lived here for 36 years).

In December, a Neighbourhood Manager knocked unexpectedly on the door to discuss a complaint from a neighbour we are having a dispute with and I let him in (kicked myself since, as they're supposed to make an appointment, but there was no reason not to, in my mind).

He was amazed to see how much stuff we have in here, and immediately threatened injunction and later eviction.

This guy seemed a little crazy at the time, from a lot of the things he said, and I guess he might have been, as he was fired recently.

We thought the problem would end there because he was some kind of rogue hire, but when the new Neighbourhood Manager visited recently about another matter, he raised the issue again and we were surprised to hear that they still expect us to reduce the amount of possessions in our home.

They claim that having so many possessions in this ground floor flat
(two floored block of flats) is a "fire risk" and therefore a danger to us and our neighbours.

Now, I suspect that we're so disorganised right now that they think we might be hoarders. We're not, we've simply overbought on crafts and hobbies, haven't bought enough furniture for it yet, and we are already space-challenged because we are a bedroom short (three adults living here, two small bedrooms).

We are working to get everything out of plastic boxes and into furniture, (we planned to do so from January anyway, before they said a word).

But my question is, how likely is it that they would be able to obtain an injunction for too much stuff being a fire risk?

And how much is too much anyway?!
They keep writing annoying sentences like "remove all excessive items" (did they mean excess? But that's subjective, so not helpful anyway!) and "achieving the desired result" - without explaining what that actually would be!

I can't help thinking that with absolutely no hoarder squalor, everything being usable craft items and/or ordinary home possessions, no bother to neighbours with no stuff spilling into communal areas, no blocked exits, etc. would mean that they would be highly unlikely to obtain an injunction?
Or would "it's a fire risk SHOULD there be a fire" be enough?

It feels like they're trying to apply the rules they have for the communal hallway to our home, and that doesn't sound right...? Obviously, I do know that real hoarder's homes burn hotter and faster than non-hoarder homes, but we're not hoarders, and it doesn't seem right that they're trying to interfere when we don't feel we've done anything wrong and are just living our chosen lifestyle?

I would love to know if I can just tell them to get off my back while I sort it from boxes into furniture, and them let them visit at the end of the job, but don't know where I stand legally to be confident enough to override the monthly visits they are proposing, and defend myself from the threats they keep giving about injunctions/action against our tenancy.

Can anyone cut through the crud and let me know where we might stand on this?

Thank you!

patman99

Yes, they can evict you for having to much stuff.

My spouse is into crafting so I know how much stuff can be accumulated. A great deal of craft and hobby materials are flammable including card, plastic and adhesives, so I can see where they are coming from.

To much stuff. Are there boxes everywhere?, Or are they neatly stacked in the corner out of the way?.

Do you have an allocated garden in which you could erect a shed?.

G_M

You initially mention a complaint from a neighbour. What was the complaint and is it in any way relevant to the issue you have with the HA?

Your comment about the 1st Manager being 'a little crazy' seems irrelevant since a subsequent manager appears to be supporting the 1st manager's opinion. They can't both be crazy surely?

So, the crux of the issue is whether your possessions in some way contravene the tenancy rules, or H&S regs, or some other rule.

Without knowing exactly what rule the HA is claiming you to be contravening, plus without actually seeing the inside of your property to judge it against whatever rull is involved, it s impossible for us to advise.

But my advice would be to invite the current manager to come round again to discuss the matter more fully. Tidy up as much as you can first, and then ask

* what rule they are concerned about
* what aspect of your possessions they claim is breaching said rule and
* what minimum changes they would like to see to satisfy them

At least you'd then understand where they are coming from.

You can then decide whether to attempt to satisfy them by ridding yourself of whatever they consider excessive, or whether to contestt their view.

Cheeky_Monkey

First of all, it's the HA's flat so you must abide by their rules.

Most hoarders are 'in denial' and try to justify themselves, usually by saying 'we're not hoarders, we just like to have a lot of stuff!!'.

I imagine that as you are presumably breaching a clause in your tenancy agreement, the HA can and, probably will, go to court for an eviction order on the grounds of public safety unless you do something about it pretty quick.

If you have lived there for 36 years, I'm not sure the arguement you are trying to use of not having enough furniture yet is viable.

I imagine that all Councils/HAs are now being ultra cautious where fire hazards are concerned post Grenfell and would likely win their case.

AnotherJoe

If it's currently in plastic boxes then when put onto furniture it would surely take up more space, not less ?

BorisThomson

You've been there 36 years, but you've still not furnished the place?

There is more to this story than you're telling us.

PinkMohawk

patman99 wrote: »

Yes, they can evict you for having to much stuff.

My spouse is into crafting so I know how much stuff can be accumulated. A great deal of craft and hobby materials are flammable including card, plastic and adhesives, so I can see where they are coming from.

To much stuff. Are there boxes everywhere?, Or are they neatly stacked in the corner out of the way?.

Do you have an allocated garden in which you could erect a shed?.

Hi patman99,

Thanx for your reply!

The boxes are 80L plastic boxes and are mostly stacked to approximately six feet high (eight stacks in total). The fullest room has a row of them, each side, in front of the bookcases which already existed all along the walls of the room. The walkway in the middle allows you to just about open your arms out wide. So yes, neatly stacked and out of the way, but also non-standard in position and kind of in the way of the existing furniture, I guess. (Like I said, we were planning to address it anyway, so it's definitely not ideal and is very full.)

Our "garden" is a little plot under the living room window, so unfortunately a shed is not an option.

We can't do storage either, as we don't have a car. I would have put it into storage and brought some to and fro regularly for sorting, but without a car, you're basically paying loads of money to lock it away from yourself.

PinkMohawk

G_M wrote: »

You initially mention a complaint from a neighbour. What was the complaint and is it in any way relevant to the issue you have with the HA?

Your comment about the 1st Manager being 'a little crazy' seems irrelevant since a subsequent manager appears to be supporting the 1st manager's opinion. They can't both be crazy surely?

So, the crux of the issue is whether your possessions in some way contravene the tenancy rules, or H&S regs, or some other rule.

Without knowing exactly what rule the HA is claiming you to be contravening, plus without actually seeing the inside of your property to judge it against whatever rull is involved, it s impossible for us to advise.

But my advice would be to invite the current manager to come round again to discuss the matter more fully. Tidy up as much as you can first, and then ask

* what rule they are concerned about
* what aspect of your possessions they claim is breaching said rule and
* what minimum changes they would like to see to satisfy them

At least you'd then understand where they are coming from.

You can then decide whether to attempt to satisfy them by ridding yourself of whatever they consider excessive, or whether to contestt their view.

Hi G_M,

Thank you for your reply!

The neighbour's complaint was about deliveries coming in the back gate. There is a communal area out there which they have let her monopolise as a "garden". She also recently got a dog. I think our deliveries are the only thing she hasn't managed to control out there, and she wanted to stop anyone coming in there so she gets perfect peace for her and the dog.

I really like your idea about doing what we can and then asking for a visit with those questions. It just seems so silly that we have come this far, and they still haven't told us enough about what should be done. I have also directly asked, by email, which clause in my Tenancy Agreement I am breaching, but have not received a reply.

Thank you!

PinkMohawk

Cheeky_Monkey wrote: »

First of all, it's the HA's flat so you must abide by their rules.

Most hoarders are 'in denial' and try to justify themselves, usually by saying 'we're not hoarders, we just like to have a lot of stuff!!'.

I imagine that as you are presumably breaching a clause in your tenancy agreement, the HA can and, probably will, go to court for an eviction order on the grounds of public safety unless you do something about it pretty quick.

If you have lived there for 36 years, I'm not sure the arguement you are trying to use of not having enough furniture yet is viable.

I imagine that all Councils/HAs are now being ultra cautious where fire hazards are concerned post Grenfell and would likely win their case.

Hi Cheeky_Monkey,

Thanx for your reply!

Surely rules can't just be invented on the fly? We have a Tenancy Agreement - I have asked them to let me know which line I am breaching, and they have consistently avoided answering.

Grenfell was the Council's fault, not the tenants'.

The recently bought items still need furniture, so yes, it is a valid factor.

PinkMohawk

AnotherJoe wrote: »

If it's currently in plastic boxes then when put onto furniture it would surely take up more space, not less ?

Hi AnotherJoe,

You think...? I've filled a bookcase recently from some boxes, and it at least feels better and more compact in the bookcase than in the boxes... Maybe that's just because it's more 'usual'? I don't know, but it does.

tacpot12

It sounds like you are running a business given the volume of stuff you have, and the injunction could be obtained to stop you trading. Eight x six foot high stacks of 80L boxes is an exceptional amount of storage and so I'm not surprised that the HA is taking an interest, especially as they have had a complaint.

I think they will argue that it can't all be hobby stuff, because you haven't got the space in the house to put everything that the stuff can be made into. (Manufactured items always take up more space than the materials they are made from). They will be very concerned about the plastic boxes which are flammable and the contents, especially if solvents are involved.

Are you still having more stuff delivered?