Housing Association Threatening Injunction

PinkMohawk

BorisThomson wrote: »

You've been there 36 years, but you've still not furnished the place?

There is more to this story than you're telling us.

Hi BorisThomson,

No, there's more to this story than what you have been able to ascertain from my words.

I did not say that we "haven't furnished the place". We need MORE furniture for the stuff we have bought fast and left in boxes thus far, and we also need to go into older boxes in other storage areas (alcoves in the hallway) and see what we can donate or throw away, to make room for the new furniture/stuff.

AnotherJoe

PinkMohawk wrote: »

Hi Cheeky_Monkey,

Thanx for your reply!

Surely rules can't just be invented on the fly? We have a Tenancy Agreement - I have asked them to let me know which line I am breaching, and they have consistently avoided answering.

Grenfell was the Council's fault, not the tenants'.

The recently bought items still need furniture, so yes, it is a valid factor.

But it started with a fire in a tenants flat. Yours sounds like an accident waiting to happen (especially if a huge volume of flammable substances is moved from being closely packed in sealed boxes onto open shelving). And that's just as stored. What about when you start using it ? It must take up more space then and be more of a fire risk.

Imagine folded up newspaper in boxes vs folded up newspapers on open shelves vs simgle newspapers spread over the flat. The fire risk gets worse each stage.

So, I can't blame the HA for being ultra cautious. Imagine you are the officer being quizzed In a public enquiry "so Mr A J despite being informed about the huge volume of flammable substances accumulated in the house, and a previous colleague leaving a a report about this danger, you ignored it?" That's the likely thought process of the official.

In any case how can you possibly use all this stuff and not have it spread more ? Are you perhaps buying in bulk and reselling in smaller quantities perhaps?

I would imagine the grounds will end up being "fire safety" which in these times you are going to have a hard time arguing against.

PinkMohawk

tacpot12 wrote: »

It sounds like you are running a business given the volume of stuff you have, and the injunction could be obtained to stop you trading. Eight x six foot high stacks of 80L boxes is an exceptional amount of storage and so I'm not surprised that the HA is taking an interest, especially as they have had a complaint.

I think they will argue that it can't all be hobby stuff, because you haven't got the space in the house to put everything that the stuff can be made into. (Manufactured items always take up more space than the materials they are made from). They will be very concerned about the plastic boxes which are flammable and the contents, especially if solvents are involved.

Are you still having more stuff delivered?

Hi tacpot12,

Thanx for your reply!

The first guy did assume it was business. Mainly because of the deliveries complaint, I originally thought. But maybe he was just making the same assumption as you, just because he feels it's a lot of stuff. I DO work from home. My business supplies are a box of markers and a sketchbook. The first guy mentioned the poisonous fumes from burning plastic boxes, too, but searching on the internet did not flag up any warnings about having them in the home. And they were always meant to be only temporary storage solutions anyway.

The rest of the stuff is mainly art and craft hobby supplies for two people - my son and I. We make cards, wall art, home decor, etc as family gifts, but to be honest, due to problems we've been having, we haven't made stuff in a while, which is why we have so many supplies sitting waiting. Also a good few boxes of music collections, sentimental items and action figures.

We need the time to go through it all properly and it takes so long. I don't know how to go faster with them pressuring me, when I have no other course of action to take.

We're certainly not adding any more to our craft supplies, and haven't in some months, but I don't think I can stop our two grocery deliveries per week, which is partly what that neighbour was complaining about...! We don't go out, so have everything we need delivered, but it still means we only have a few more deliveries than the average household. (The craft delivery lady always came the front way anyway!)

Cheeky_Monkey

PinkMohawk wrote: »

Hi Cheeky_Monkey,

Thanx for your reply!

Surely rules can't just be invented on the fly? We have a Tenancy Agreement - I have asked them to let me know which line I am breaching, and they have consistently avoided answering.

Grenfell was the Council's fault, not the tenants'.

The recently bought items still need furniture, so yes, it is a valid factor.

I presume you have your own copy of your Tenancy Agreement - have you actually read it or can't you find it because it's buried under the mountain of stuff you are hoarding?

Oh, I didn't realise that the official investigation into the Grenfell fire had been concluded and found that the Council were to blame.

From your own description of the amount of 'stuff' you have in your flat, I'm not in the least bit surprised that the HA are threatending to evict you if you don't get rid of the vast majority of it.

BorisThomson

We need the time to go through it all properly and it takes so long.

That's not going to change if you don't get on with it. Each box will take a few hours at most, get rid of anything you've not used in the past six months or don't have a definite plan for in the near future. You'll be sorted in days.

Do you earn a liveable income from this or is it a hobby?

Rambosmum

The short answer is yes, you can have an injunction against you and can be evicted for having too much stuff.

I'm a social worker with adults and we work with 'self neglect' cases, most of which are hoarders. NONE of them think they are hoarders (not saying you are, just that saying your not doesn't mean anything). Hoarding - either the mental illness or simply a result of having too much stuff for the space, is a fire risk, which is ultimately what you can be evicted for.


Could you ask friends or family to perhaps store a box each? Can you bin some of it? Sell it or give it away?

You need to have a clear out, you need to get the situation sorted. It's unlikely extra furniture will help the situation.

Also, you say you have an extra person there, any chance they (and their stuff) can move out?

I'm surprised that the HA haven't asked if you'd have an assessment by the fire service if they see it as a fire risk - you could request one directly (and if the fire service feel there's limited risk then that's on your side).

Rambosmum

PinkMohawk wrote: »

Hi tacpot12,.
We don't go out, so have everything we need delivered

Is this due to physical or mental illness?

PinkMohawk

AnotherJoe wrote: »

But it started with a fire in a tenants flat. Yours sounds like an accident waiting to happen (especially if a huge volume of flammable substances is moved from being closely packed in sealed boxes onto open shelving). And that's just as stored. What about when you start using it ? It must take up more space then and be more of a fire risk.

Imagine folded up newspaper in boxes vs folded up newspapers on open shelves vs simgle newspapers spread over the flat. The fire risk gets worse each stage.

So, I can't blame the HA for being ultra cautious. Imagine you are the officer being quizzed In a public enquiry "so Mr A J despite being informed about the huge volume of flammable substances accumulated in the house, and a previous colleague leaving a a report about this danger, you ignored it?" That's the likely thought process of the official.

In any case how can you possibly use all this stuff and not have it spread more ? Are you perhaps buying in bulk and reselling in smaller quantities perhaps?

I would imagine the grounds will end up being "fire safety" which in these times you are going to have a hard time arguing against.

Hi AnotherJoe,

Thanx for your thoughtful reply.

They have already said a few things which clearly communicate that they are covering their own butts should anything happen, yes. But I just keep getting the feeling that they're not being straight with us and that that's exactly it - they're being overly cautious and protecting themselves, and we either pay the price by losing our stuff or our home, when really we just need to time to get our flat right again - or we end up taking them seriously and losing possessions we don't want to lose, when they wouldn't have gone for an injunction anyway!

That's why I wondered if by chance anyone knew the real legal stuff about this, or if anyone knows of a similar case.

Nowhere online nor in the agreement does the Housing Association say you shouldn't fill your home as much as you choose. I would know not to store unstable chemical products, I'm careful with fire safety, electrical cords, etc., we don't smoke... I simply did not consider having a lot of possessions could be anyone else's business in any way whatsoever.

PinkMohawk

BorisThomson wrote: »

That's not going to change if you don't get on with it. Each box will take a few hours at most, get rid of anything you've not used in the past six months or don't have a definite plan for in the near future. You'll be sorted in days.

Do you earn a liveable income from this or is it a hobby?

Days?!? Then, boy, I must be bad at this...!

My drawing is my only source of income, yes.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

From my point of view the HA has no standing to obtain a "injunction".

Ask them in writing (sent signed for):

What Part of your tenancy have you breached because "Excessive" is too vague a statement you want them to quote a specific part of your tenancy agreement.

What Policy are they following in order to enforce "Excessive"?

Do they suspect you are a Hoarder?

Do they suspect you of running a business from the property?

Put it plainly that the items they observed are your personal property and that you have already outlined your plan to "organise it".

The HA has a right to inspect their properties, they must give you notice of a minimum of 24hours where there is emergency access needed, but they don't have the right to tell you how to organise your property, like you don't have the right to go into their own homes and tell them to organise their items in their wardrobes.

If they suspect you of being a hoarder then they must prove this the case, just because you have a lot of items does not equate to being a hoarder in order to obtain a Cease and Desist order in order to prevent you from taking in any further items, Then when this is breached they can then issues a section 8 notice of seeking possession of the property upon you.

The same if they suspect you of running a business, They must first prove you are running a business, Simply stating to a judge you have a lot of craft items that one would not normally have unless your running a business is NOT a reason to obtain an eviction, they must first prove the breach of tenancy has occurred in this respect.

So if they cant quote the breach of your tenancy then tell them any more letters regarding the issue will be met with a official letter of complaint (following their complaints procedure to the letter) for harassment if your not satisfied then you can opt to go to the ombudsman.