BWLegal - the list of failures growing

beamerguy

didgeridoooo wrote: »

PS - was it DRP or Zenith who's site you looked at.?

Starts with DRP
https://www.debtrecoveryplus.co.uk/pcn-collection/

didgeridoooo

Lovely, screenshot taken. I will check both. Nice to have little things like that to bring up if they walk into it by saying something silly!

beamerguy

didgeridoooo wrote: »

Lovely, screenshot taken. I will check both. Nice to have little things like that to bring up if they walk into it by saying something silly!

And when you win, report BWLegal to the SRA for Abuse of Process
https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems.page

The_Deep

Report them now, they know full well what is allowed and what isn't.

didgeridoooo

You can bet on it. Writing letters of complaint is my evening leisure activity instead of the trash on TV.

didgeridoooo

Post removed

KeithP

didgeridoooo wrote: »

I read somewhere that a claim form should merit a new thread, but I dont want to do that unless someone thinks I should? Don't want to add clutter to the board, but if it helps I will do that. Thanks for any advice.

Please continue on your existing thread and tell us the Issue Date on your Claim Form on that thread.

I wonder how many Maritime Car Parks there are in the country.

Hint: this thread isn't your existing thread.

didgeridoooo

Oh my God! I must have bookmarked this as my own thread, that's what it's marked as in my bookmarks folder! Doh!! Thanks KP, will shift it!

BountyHunter

Winner Winner

This is based on exchanges in the Whatsapp group. I was not the defendant - who would rather remain anonymous, so I may not be able to answer specific questions – but thought it would be useful info to share the below nonetheless.

BWLegal witness statement pack
Most of the evidence is copy and paste crap and a lot of pictures and illustrations.
The IPC CoP is interesting on signage. Their case says that they adhere and, since signs must be audited, an audit would have been done. No evidence presented though.

OK. What BW Legal are using in court:

1. IPC member and follow signage recommendations and code of practice. (No they don't)
2. Signage about byelaws sufficient and can be read and understood when entering the site
3. Any motorist used the site may not stop, park, load or unload. (No exceptions noted so presumably it's illegal to use the car parks.)
4. Signage forms a unilateral offer. A contractual licence is being offered. (Not clear here.)
5. Roads are privately owned. Accessible to the public, they are not public access roads and are not publicly adopted so Byelaws apply.
6.Claimant refers to Highways Act 1980 (not 1988): allows notices to be erected that negate intention to dedicate as a highway.
7. Copy of parking enforcement contract with Park and Fly Ltd.
They are making a big deal of a passenger getting out. I admitted that in case they had photos which they sort of do. Best not to be caught lying to a judge...
Ownership does not dictate Road Traffic Act. In fact that statement is one massive contradiction.

Notes on defence
I have asked them to show me where it states that the RTA doesn’t apply to privately owned roads and they haven’t been able to.
So my final defence [witness statement] and evidence have gone to the court by email. I've included the IPC code of practice and some photos and the email from Northumbria Police.
My defence has four strands and I plan to claim that each one of them is sufficient to defeat the claim.
• I didn't park
• Not covered by byelaws
• No contract
• Abuse of process

On the day

Interesting summing up plus a lesson.

The paralegal travelled from Manchester. Not Leeds. Strange. I chatted to him a bit before the case. Think part of it was to pump me or unnerve me. Mind games.

Cheeky !!!!!! of a paralegal told the usher it wouldn't last long. Think I took the full 90 minutes before I got kicked out.
Held in a small court room. Facing judge, room for maybe 10 people. In a U shape with judge in the middle.

I'm saying that they lost it rather than I won it. Modesty...
In fact, they lost in the first ten minutes before I'd said anything.

They showed a contract between UKPPO and Park and Fly. Then said twice that the land is owned by NIAL. Judge threw it out because no link given in evidence between Park and Fly and Newcastle International Airport Ltd – NIAL.

Think I bored the judge with signs. He said that this case will not be settled on what signs say so I realised that he'd probably decided already. So shut up to avoid shooting in foot.

Judge ruled that I had a right to decline a contract to park in the hotel and that this right trumped any purported restrictions.

Something the judge spotted: UKPPO have two signs. One for £100 penalty in small print, big red ones for £60. Felt that this may invalidate any contract as no opportunity to read the smaller £100 sign.

He [Judge] was very thorough and held BW's feet to the fire.

My mistake - I raised audience rights too late. Did but got it chucked out because claimant had presented his case. Judge loved it though! Nearly rubbed his hands at the fun of it.

I don't believe he was an employee of BW, btw. I was told that it was too late for me to raise it. I should have insisted at the beginning. The judge steered the case by saying he'd hear the claimant first then me. I didn't think it was a good idea to interrupt the judge. In retrospect that was wrong. However, the judge did tell the paralegal at the end that there was doubt about right of audience and he would expect there not to be an issue again in his court.

I'm not absolutely sure that right of audience would succeed but paralegal did say it was only the second time it had been raised in 20 years.

Shook his hand afterwards. Don't want to be a bad winner 😂🤣

“I take it you didn’t have abuse of process in your witness statement”
Yes but we didn't get that far.

Was the RTA / Byelaw issue raised?
Not really as I don't think the judge felt he needed to hear more. I'm glad because I was nervous that I might screw it up. I asked the judge whether he was trying it as a byelaw case or a contract case. He said both. Not sure how to take that...

He did hint that stopping on red lines would be harder to defend.

I think UKPPO shot themselves in the foot with a bazooka more than anything my witness statement said

So did you both state your cases and then at the end the judge summed up?
Should have raised rights of audience straight away. Claimant presented case then me.

Judge summed up. Gave the reason for the case failing straight away but then moved on to other things potentially relevant to other cases for which I took notes [already listed above]

Oh and UKPPO showed a map of where my car was. TBH their evidence was shoddy. I used their evidence more than I used mine.

I admitted that a passenger got out. Photo showed it so no point in denying it. Judge accepted that it happened while I was reading the signs.

Weird line of questioning from BW. Was I stopped closer to the left kerb at the barrier? Suspect this was to show that there was evidence that I intended to drop passenger off. I said not and that their photo showed no such thing.

They also tried to claim that the entrance was wide enough for two vehicles. That made no sense but I disagreed firmly.

Paralegal quoted case about displaying signs and reasonable efforts. Parker & Southern Eastern Railway from 1877. ?

Also BW showed maps of airport ownership. Judge asked if they had Land Registry documents!

The judge prompted me to ask for expenses.

Top marks to the judge though. I thanked him at the end for making the process as painless as possible.

Umkomaas

Great report, excellent result. :T. Thanks for posting it here **

Paralegal quoted case about displaying signs and reasonable efforts. Parker & Southern Eastern Railway from 1877. ?

Was that via ANPR? As seemingly unreliable now as it was in 1877. Did they have cars then? :rotfl:

** Could you copy and paste on your dedicated UKPPO/NIAL as well please?