Mirror Wills and Probate - only one will taken to probate?

poppystar

Grantyy wrote: »

The Children are named on both Wills just only one went to probate.

re reading an early post you said the GF was not a named beneficiary - is she named or not?

Yorkshireman99

Grantyy wrote: »

The Children are named on both Wills just only one went to probate.

I believe when myGF's Mum died all assets passed on to the partner as someone mentioned is often the case except the house as right after GF Mums DOD the land registry was amended to include my GF and the son of the partners side and they are now executors. So I think people are right that the house is the main thing but as I said the car was brought with my GF Mums money so it seems wrong the other side would get 100%, my GF is only concerned about the house but still it would be fair for her to get 50% of things that were both her Mums and her partners.
Saying that the other side are offering half of the house clearance and car sale albeit they have controlled it all as we were never sure we had any right to that in law but in principle she certainly does and I'd have no doubt if the other way around she would follow the Wills which state the residuary estate which im sure both Mum and Partner would have wanted all assets splitting 50/50 between each side. I doubt many couples would agree that whoever dies first the other side gain more!
Of course a Will is different but my interpretation is that they protected each other and left everything to one another whilst preventing either from selling the house, then after the surviving partner dies it says "my residuary estate passes to that of my children"
So the only real confusionis the Executor account as I read you need to show proof of probate to open one, so does that then tie the attached Will to that so if the house money goes into that account do the executors then have to follow the instructions of that Will with my GF's Mums Will left unproven.
I think the key is that at the time the house was put into the executors names the solicitor said to my GF just before that we have to do something now to protect your Mums wishes and as he never mentioned probate I we can only assume all is well.
Of course the other side are being good but I know too well that things can change when money is cleared and so we need to be certain of what is going to happen.
My GF is asking a colleague regards executors accounts today so long as she is there.

Much of what you have said within this thread has, I am sorry to say been periferal to the underlying problem. Having read your contributions again I am still unsure of exactly what has been done and by whom. In the interest of clarity could you please just tell the following without any excess detail. As far as I can see unless the wills are joint wills, as opposed to mirror wills, then they are just the same as any other wills where a married couple have died at different times.



Let us call the couple A and B who were married and, AIUI, made mirror rather than joint wills. Which died first and who were the executors of that will that was AIUI admited to probate? Let us call them C, D and E. Who were the beneficiaries? Let us call them F through to I. AIUI the second will has not been admited to probate. Why? The "mirror wills issue seems a complete red herring. Who are the executors of the second will? Who are the beneficiaries of the second will?

poppystar

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Let us call the couple A and B who were married and, AIUI, made mirror rather than joint wills. Which died first and who were the executors of that will that was AIUI admited to probate? Let us call them C, D and E. Who were the beneficiaries? Let us call them F through to I. AIUI the second will has not been admited to probate. Why? The "mirror wills issue seems a complete red herring. Who are the executors of the second will? Who are the beneficiaries of the second will?

I think it is the other way round.

Mother and partner not married. Had mirror wills.

Mother dies first. House goes to children - or at least GF of OP - but will does not go to probate. Executors are the children.

Fast forward four years. Partner dies. Same solicitor dealing. Partner's will goes to probate. (OP sure it is the mirror will not an updated will - although at one point says GF not named beneficiary) Executors the same.

At this point OP and GF start to worry because probate wasn't done on first death.

Then it is confused as you say because of the terms 'our' will and 'their' will and because OP seems to be expecting both wills now to go to probate.

At least that is my understanding...

cte1111

Just on the executors' account - I've dealt with 3 wills, obtaining probate for 3 relatives, and never opened an executor's account. I've just tracked the assets and expenses in a spreadsheet and split between the beneficiaries. Banks, building societies, estate agents and solicitors have all been happy to pay directly without needing an executor account.

I would personally always go through the probate process, if an executor of a will. It is fairly straightforward to do and means that every thing gets dealt with properly at the right time.

OP - what does your GF Mum's partner's will say about their residual estate? If it says - "to my children", then the only asset to which your GF will be entitled is the half share of the house. This is already secure, as she is named on the Land Registry.

Have you seen the actual will of the partner?

Manxman_in_exile

poppystar wrote: »

I think it is the other way round.

Mother and partner not married. Had mirror wills.

Mother dies first. House goes to children - or at least GF of OP - but will does not go to probate. Executors are the children.

Fast forward four years. Partner dies. Same solicitor dealing. Partner's will goes to probate. (OP sure it is the mirror will not an updated will - although at one point says GF not named beneficiary) Executors the same.

At this point OP and GF start to worry because probate wasn't done on first death.

Then it is confused as you say because of the terms 'our' will and 'their' will and because OP seems to be expecting both wills now to go to probate.

At least that is my understanding...

I think that is a fair summary.


I think (perhaps understandably) the OP and their girlfriend are a bit confused.


It might be better if OP could give a concise chronology and details about when mum died, who the executors were (I assume GF was one), what the assets were, what the executors did at the time etc, what they were advised to do and by whom. And when did the partner die and was his mirror will still valid?


Apparently they've already been to CAB who said they need to seek advice.


I suppose whether it's worth seeking advice (from another solicitor) depends on the value of the residual estate.

Manxman_in_exile

cte1111 wrote: »

OP - what does your GF Mum's partner's will say about their residual estate? If it says - "to my children", then the only asset to which your GF will be entitled is the half share of the house. This is already secure, as she is named on the Land Registry.

Have you seen the actual will of the partner?

I think the OP has said that the two mirror wills name the residual beneficiaries (ie the respective children of the two parties') individually, but they haven't really made that clear.


I think the OP needs to describe a simple set of events: (1) terms of mum's will; (2) what happened when she died (ie how her will was executed); (3) terms of partner's will; (4) what assets does partner's estate have.


I fear the OP and his GF are currently too confused or distressed to be able to do this clearly. I'm sure others here can help to elicit the relevant detail.

getmore4less

Mojisola wrote: »

How was the ownership of the property changed if probate wasn't granted?

Probate IS NOT needed if there is more than one owner(does not matter if joint or TIC).

getmore4less

getmore4less wrote: »

Back to basics you need to track the beneficial interests of the assets.
(legal ownership is a different)

What does mums will say.

What assets did she have at DOD.

once you work out where they have gone(beneficially) you can move onto the partners will.


(There is a good chance mums will never needed to go to probate and still does not need too.)

I will repeat one more time.

What did mums will say, forget everything else for now.

(OP you clearly don't understand the process or what has happened.
you need to start from the beginning and work through)

Grantyy

poppystar wrote: »

I think it is the other way round.

Mother and partner not married. Had mirror wills.

Mother dies first. House goes to children - or at least GF of OP - but will does not go to probate. Executors are the children.

Fast forward four years. Partner dies. Same solicitor dealing. Partner's will goes to probate. (OP sure it is the mirror will not an updated will - although at one point says GF not named beneficiary) Executors the same.

At this point OP and GF start to worry because probate wasn't done on first death.

Then it is confused as you say because of the terms 'our' will and 'their' will and because OP seems to be expecting both wills now to go to probate.

At least that is my understanding...

Sorry I had little time yesterday but you have all helped, particularly this post from Poppy and the one from CTE 1111 as hearing that a Will does not have to go to probate is what we needed, so My Gf's Mums Will is still in effect regardless of it not being proven through probate, right? this is what has complicated it for us as we kept being told that in the end it will go back to probate and of course my GF's Mums Will never went to probate but she is named on the land registry of the House and that is the only asset that really matters, as I said her Mum did put most the money into everything including the House and Car and with her Mums Will not going to probate we have been left confused were we stand on all assets but it seems at the very least she is protected regards the House.

Grantyy

cte1111 wrote: »

Just on the executors' account - I've dealt with 3 wills, obtaining probate for 3 relatives, and never opened an executor's account. I've just tracked the assets and expenses in a spreadsheet and split between the beneficiaries. Banks, building societies, estate agents and solicitors have all been happy to pay directly without needing an executor account.

I would personally always go through the probate process, if an executor of a will. It is fairly straightforward to do and means that every thing gets dealt with properly at the right time.

OP - what does your GF Mum's partner's will say about their residual estate? If it says - "to my children", then the only asset to which your GF will be entitled is the half share of the house. This is already secure, as she is named on the Land Registry.


Have you seen the actual will of the partner?

This post too, If only the house is secure thats the main asset though her Mums Will does state Residuary estate so I'm unsure why it wasn't proven, if the intention was just the property then why not just state that?