Mirror Wills and Probate - only one will taken to probate?

Grantyy

Thanks Poppystar, that makes sense.
I think with the solicitor saying it will go to probate and the lady in the bank telling my GF she stands to get nothing it has confused what probate is to us. I think my GF was worried that if she signs the documents she has in possession to sell the house that the money could then go back to probate and the effects of the other will be the only one that come into effect.
We will try to find out about probate though my GF thinks it hasn't been done, can it still be done years later? I'm not sure why she wasn't advised at the time that that had to be done as we all have first experiences with these things and I bet many don't realise they have to do that?

Grantyy

I think the Wills are worded a certain way so as to pass everything to tghe surviving partner and then after that on to the children of each side. I'll get a couple of the main paragraphs later if I can but they mention property being held in trust which I guess was what I mentioned above, the partner was not able to sell the house without his sons and my GF's help. So My GF and the partners Son remain on the Land registry and in effect owners.
I guess the most important question left is if probate has been done on one Will but not the other what happens to the proceeds when the house sells? Will it be split 50/50 as they are the owners or will probate come back into it and therefore only take the other parties will into account if my GF's Mums never did go to probate?
We are going to look into the probate situation tomorrow but she seems to think that they said it doesn't need to go to probate because of the way they have protected the house. So possibly all possessions were passed to the other side but the house protected without probate? Does that make any sense?
We did see another solicitor on a free open day and she saw the probate and seemed uncertain but when she saw the fact that my GF's name was on the land registry she said it was ok but as I said a lot of other things and in particular the probate and the failure of our solicitor to answer simple questions made us unsure since that.

indian_summer

I dont know anything about mirror wills but a google search shows they are not the best way to go about making provisions for separate families.

It is looking like at the moment that your girlfriend is only entitled to her share of the house.

If probate wasnt applied for then it may be any monies your late mother and partner had were in joint accounts so it wouldnt be neccessary to apply as everything automatically passes to the partner.

Also many banks will release funds in the thousands without a grant of probate being needed.

Mojisola

Grantyy wrote: »

1 - Should mirror wills have gone to probate together rather than just one?

cte1111 wrote: »

The 2 wills are totally separate. The fact that they were drawn up at the same time and with the same provisions is irrelevant.

When your Mum died, the provisions of her will should have been followed.

Grantyy - Mirror wills are as cte says - totally separate wills and the survivor can change their will if they wish.

You might be thinking of joint wills - these are mirror wills but have an extra clause which stops the survivor from writing a new will. This type of will is not often used now.

Grantyy

Thanks for the replies, we know that the other parties will wasn't amended and is the original mirror copy of the same Will we have (in all but the sons/daughters names mentioned within them) as we have a copy attached to the probate copy that we were given.
We didn't and still don't fully understand probate but a couple of you guys have said familiar things in that maybe we did not need probate as all other possessions would have transferred to the other party but the house has been protected with the addition of my GF and the other sides son being put onto the land registry, so long as that house cannot go back to probate once the money is cleared and then only take the other parties will into account then I guess that would make sense.
If my GF is a part owner then it would make little sense under law to add her as an owner only for her to have to give her half up, I just cannot understand why the solicitor wouldn't have advised her to take the will to probate at the time they added her to the deeds but I can only assume they knew what they were doing. Problem is as I said before when my GF asked the solicitor why only one will was attached to the probate (i believe a different one to who added her as an owner) she stumbled a bit and had to hang up to confer with a colleague, that in itself was hardly reassuring, ever since she has avoided simple questions and told us that my GF's Mums will hasn't been proven (not gone to probate I believe that means) so why didn't they tell her to do that at the time when the same firm wrote the wills, saw my GF and the other party right after her Mum died and now again 4 years later, either way if there are any issues then it would be down to their negligence.
I can only assume they know what they are doing. Earlier she said she strongly advises we get an executors account, we asked why it cannot just be divided directly to the 2 executors own accounts but she seemed intent that we should do that despite having to travel 150 miles or so to sort it with the other party? She said in case of conflict but from our point of view knowing that their are mirror wills and they have not been changed if they'd done everything according to them then we would have exact equal rights, so thats why something seems out of place.

poppystar

Grantyy wrote: »

I think the Wills are worded a certain way so as to pass everything to tghe surviving partner and then after that on to the children of each side. I'll get a couple of the main paragraphs later if I can but they mention property being held in trust which I guess was what I mentioned above, the partner was not able to sell the house without his sons and my GF's help. So My GF and the partners Son remain on the Land registry and in effect owners.
I guess the most important question left is if probate has been done on one Will but not the other what happens to the proceeds when the house sells? Will it be split 50/50 as they are the owners or will probate come back into it and therefore only take the other parties will into account if my GF's Mums never did go to probate?

Think of the two wills as entirely separate. If mother's did not need probate because values were small and the only real thing for the solicitor to do was to change the house ownership then it looks like that was done. i.e. mother's wishes were enacted as per her will but without the need for probate. Job done, house now part owned by GF, full stop. Mother's will finished with.

That is then starting point for the partner's will. His remaining half of house can now be passed as per his wishes and his money likewise distributed -except that as the estate is probably larger in monetary value probate will be needed on his will before banks will release funds.

We are going to look into the probate situation tomorrow but she seems to think that they said it doesn't need to go to probate because of the way they have protected the house. So possibly all possessions were passed to the other side but the house protected without probate? Does that make any sense?

That makes perfect sense:)

We did see another solicitor on a free open day and she saw the probate and seemed uncertain but when she saw the fact that my GF's name was on the land registry she said it was ok but as I said a lot of other things and in particular the probate and the failure of our solicitor to answer simple questions made us unsure since that.

I think that because solicitors deal with this every day they forget how we are on a steep learning curve and may not understand the terms or the process. I remember my confusion when first faced with a will and probate forms! Hope we've made it a bit clearer - if not ask again.

indian_summer

So as I understand it both wills stated that the house be put in your girlfriends and her "stepbrothers" names jointly.

And whoevers children are to inherit the rest of the estate would depend on which parent dies first? That seems a little odd and unfair surely.

Do you have your mothers will?
If one was known about at the time of death it really should have been sent through probate.
One has to question why it wasnt
I would be seeing what it says,and maybe putting it through probate if you feel it worthwhile.

I wouldnt be signing anything regarding the partners executor account until your girlfriend knows what she is signing as she is jointly responsible for any problems that may arise if mistakes are made.

Grantyy

Thanks for the advice, I have asked my GF not to sign anything, she has forms that relate to the sale of the house and is a little too eager to get them sent.

Grantyy

Regards an Executors account I have just read twice that in order to open one probate must be produced meaning that whilst again my Gf and the stepbrother would both be executors wouldn't that only be to put into effect the terms of probate and in effect their will?
It's complicated as she is on the land registry but the solicitor who is working for both sides has explicitly told us to open an executors account? But then they are the same solicitors who failed to advise my Girlfriend to put her Mums will to probate 4 years ago when they added her name to the house.
It seems every corner we turn their are more questions but if a bank does need probate then without her Mums will ever being proven then what will happen.
My GF works for a bank and so will find out a bit regarding executor accounts tomorrow but I'd appreciate it if anyone knows if that is the case.

Grantyy

I think you are right Poppy regarding the house being safe guarded, its just probate has been mentioned so many times, even a simple search of the net says a will should go to probate and most early replies on this thread the same.
Logically I think that must be the case that as my GF is now a 50/50 owner of the house and I guess most other assets passed over which in my personal opinion is wrong , not that we aren't Ok with that and she is happy with 50/50 as its what her Mum wanted, its just the principle when even the house was brought almost entirely by my GF's Mum for the other side to get her car etc just because she died early it doesn't seem right but then I guess there are ways of doing wills differently not that most people are so clued up or have the inclination to delve so deep into those kind of things.

So the post above this one still stands regarding the executors account, if the house money is transferred into that but they need probate to open it then would my GF as executor be in her rights to take her 50% as the way I see it she would simply be an executor to make sure the terms of the will on the probate are carried out which only names the other sides children, even as a joint owner could she lose her 50% if the solicitors put the money into an executor account opened using the current probate which has no mention of my GF's Mums Will? It would kind of be silly to be a part owner for so long just to lose everything and I'd have though it would be easy to prove the intention of her Mums will and if is the case negligence on behalf of the solicitors for not advising my GF to put her Mums will to probate just after she died.
I know if any problems do arise regards the house money then it is possible for these things to be overturned though I'm not sure how complicated that would be but I guess it all comes down to if the executors account is tied to the probate or not.
What I can't get my head around is why despite numerous calls to the solicitors over the past 4 or 5 months why they are unable to reassure us and tell us exactly what is what, it seems even on their part they have been confused at times?