Mirror Wills and Probate - only one will taken to probate?

p00hsticks

Who is named as executor(s) on both of the wills ? It would have been their responsibility to apply for probate after each of the deaths.

As it sounds like there was a property involved in the mothers estate that wasn't held as joint tenants then as far as I am aware then the mothers will required probate after he death (assuming we are talking England and Wales here ?)

indian_summer

As your gf is executor she must be informed of all proceedings so dont worry nothing can be passed without her signature.

Maybe scrap the solicitor and deal with the other executors yourself,it would be a lot easier and cheaper.

Your gf was a beneficial owner of the house as a trust must have been created at the time of her mums death.Ie.house in gf name but mums partner living in it.That trust ceased on partners death so she now becomes the owner of it.Nothing can change that.

Your gf is executor of your moms will so now must now deal with the house now the trust is finished.
As executor its her responsibility to insure it,Put it up for sale etc.


An executors account must be created so all funds can be processed,funeral costs,debts paid etc.
The house monies will go into this account,they are separate from the rest of the estate.Your gf would get 50% of the house sale after fees etc.

From the info you have given and without seeing the wills this seems to be the case.Im rubbish at explaining things sorry

Edit..If both wills state that the residuary estate goes to "my children" and does not actually name each child surely this means children on both sides or am I missing something?
Im sure this was the intent of the testators.

getmore4less

Back to basics you need to track the beneficial interests of the assets.
(legal ownership is a different)

What does mums will say.

What assets did she have at DOD.

once you work out where they have gone(beneficially) you can move onto the partners will.


(There is a good chance mums will never needed to go to probate and still does not need too.)

Mojisola

indian_summer wrote: »

Your gf was a beneficial owner of the house as a trust must have been created at the time of her mums death.Ie.house in gf name but mums partner living in it.

That trust ceased on partners death so she now becomes the owner of it. Nothing can change that.

How was the ownership of the property changed if probate wasn't granted?

Edit..If both wills state that the residuary estate goes to "my children" and does not actually name each child surely this means children on both sides or am I missing something?

If someone's will says "my children" without naming them, it means genetically-related children, not step-children.

Grantyy

The Children are named on both Wills just only one went to probate.

I believe when myGF's Mum died all assets passed on to the partner as someone mentioned is often the case except the house as right after GF Mums DOD the land registry was amended to include my GF and the son of the partners side and they are now executors. So I think people are right that the house is the main thing but as I said the car was brought with my GF Mums money so it seems wrong the other side would get 100%, my GF is only concerned about the house but still it would be fair for her to get 50% of things that were both her Mums and her partners.
Saying that the other side are offering half of the house clearance and car sale albeit they have controlled it all as we were never sure we had any right to that in law but in principle she certainly does and I'd have no doubt if the other way around she would follow the Wills which state the residuary estate which im sure both Mum and Partner would have wanted all assets splitting 50/50 between each side. I doubt many couples would agree that whoever dies first the other side gain more!
Of course a Will is different but my interpretation is that they protected each other and left everything to one another whilst preventing either from selling the house, then after the surviving partner dies it says "my residuary estate passes to that of my children"
So the only real confusionis the Executor account as I read you need to show proof of probate to open one, so does that then tie the attached Will to that so if the house money goes into that account do the executors then have to follow the instructions of that Will with my GF's Mums Will left unproven.
I think the key is that at the time the house was put into the executors names the solicitor said to my GF just before that we have to do something now to protect your Mums wishes and as he never mentioned probate I we can only assume all is well.
Of course the other side are being good but I know too well that things can change when money is cleared and so we need to be certain of what is going to happen.
My GF is asking a colleague regards executors accounts today so long as she is there.

Manxman_in_exile

getmore4less wrote: »

Back to basics you need to track the beneficial interests of the assets.
(legal ownership is a different)

What does mums will say.

What assets did she have at DOD.

once you work out where they have gone(beneficially) you can move onto the partners will.


(There is a good chance mums will never needed to go to probate and still does not need too.)

OP - I know it may be very difficult but the above seems like a sensible approach to me. You need to deal with each will separately, in the order of death, and trace what happened to the mother's assets first. As suggested above the mother's will may not have required probate(?).


So long as her partner did not execute a new will after the mother's death, it ought to come down to straightforwardly following the terms of his mirror will. (Assuming, of course, that those can be clearly understood and the mirror wills weren't home made).


It's a great pity the lawyers you are dealing with can't be more helpful. I always think that if a professional can't explain in easily understood terms to a layman, then they may not be a very good professional.

poppystar

Grantyy wrote: »

So the only real confusionis the Executor account as I read you need to show proof of probate to open one, so does that then tie the attached Will to that so if the house money goes into that account do the executors then have to follow the instructions of that Will with my GF's Mums Will left unproven.

Why would the money from the sale of the house go into the executor's account?

Has someone told you that is going to happen? Or is it just a fear you have because you don't trust the solicitor?

An executors account may well be needed for other assets but the money from GF sale of house will not go there but should go straight to GF.

Please don't worry about the unproven will. Some wills do not go to probate as has been said before simply because it is not needed - why pay and go to the hassle if noone needs to see a grant of probate. As long as the instructions in that will were carried out then there is no problem and you have not suggested that that has happened. It was up to the executors after mother died to ensure those wishes were carried out and if they weren't then surely this would have come to your attention before now. This has nothing to do with the death of her partner or his will - her will should have been followed first and if that was done there is no problem to worry about now.

Mojisola

How was the ownership of the property changed if probate wasn't granted?

Manxman_in_exile

OP:


1. You are concerned that the first will did not go to probate (but it may not have needed to). The solicitor has told you several times that the will "did not go to probate" with no further explanation. For my own peace of mind I would be asking them "Should GF's mother's will have gone to probate? If it should have but did not, why not, and what are the implications (if any) of that for the executors of the partner's mirror will?"


2. You seem clear that the partner did not execute a new will - are you certain of this? If he didn't then the terms of the mirror wills have to be followed. You seem to be saying that the terms of the wills state that any residuary estate is to be divided (equally?) between the children of the two testators from (I presume) previous relationships. Do I understand correctly? Then that's what needs to happen - unless the partner has squandered everything since the mother died and nothing is left.


3. Are you concerned that the other executor from the partner's family is "not playing fair"?


4. If your GF works in a bank and she has a good relationship with her employer, I personally would have a word with my manager to see if they could help to get to speak to someone in the bank, on a purely informal basis, who has specialist knowledge on wills and probate. (Perhaps I'm naïve in thinking such people might exist and that they might have a kind word in this situation!)

Manxman_in_exile

poppystar wrote: »

As long as the instructions in that will were carried out then there is no problem and you have not suggested that that has happened. It was up to the executors after mother died to ensure those wishes were carried out and if they weren't then surely this would have come to your attention before now. This has nothing to do with the death of her partner or his will - her will should have been followed first and if that was done there is no problem to worry about now.

I think this is how I look at it.


I'm not sure but I'm wondering if GF was one of the executors of mum's will, and that OP and GF are now worried that she did not do something then that she should have done? Presumably the same solicitors were involved then.