Public Sector Pay Restraint Ending?

Tromking

Clever move by Labour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40423052

Good way to test the post-election sentiments from some Tories re.public sector pay and austerity generally.

Tromking

Fella wrote: »

We're competing with poor countries who's citizens are prepared to work harder, for much longer, for much less.

You may be, but I'm not.
I like to think I reside in a first world country, where its people still expect quality public services staffed by people with the time to care for our sick and elderly and properly resourced to keep us safe.

Fella

Tromking wrote: »

You may be, but I'm not.
I like to think I reside in a first world country, where its people still expect quality public services staffed by people with the time to care for our sick and elderly and properly resourced to keep us safe.

You certainly are. Your own job (I think you're a prison warden, not sure?) may not be a candidate for outsourcing, but lots of other jobs are. When those jobs get outsourced the people who did them need to find other jobs & some of them will be happy to do yours. You can't escape the effect of offshoring.

I'm not sure that what people expect re public services will have much effect on what they get tbh. But I see no signs whatsoever that jobs across the board are becoming less stressful, quite the opposite. Companies & organizations are continually expected to do more with less as the marketplace becomes more global & we compete with countries where human resource is cheap.

Tromking

Fella wrote: »

You certainly are. Your own job (I think you're a prison warden, not sure?) may not be a candidate for outsourcing, but lots of other jobs are. When those jobs get outsourced the people who did them need to find other jobs & some of them will be happy to do yours. You can't escape the effect of offshoring.

I'm not sure that what people expect re public services will have much effect on what they get tbh. But I see no signs whatsoever that jobs across the board are becoming less stressful, quite the opposite. Companies & organizations are continually expected to do more with less as the marketplace becomes more global & we compete with countries where human resource is cheap.

Where the outsourcing argument now falls down, is that most roles in the PS which could be privatised have been and the ones which remain, the political will to do so doesn't exist or is to problematic to enact.
This is now an argument about performance, if the answer was to privatise, then G4S`s HMP Birmingham wouldn't be one of the worst prisons in the country.
The era where outsourcing meant guaranteed savings with better performance is long gone.
I note from today's news that only a 1/3 of the country now support the Tory austerity agenda and most of us would support a hike in our own taxes to fund better public services. i think Cameron`s 'Global Race' mantra has had its day as regards public services, if it ever existed as you describe.
Just to clarify, we've never had Prison Wardens or Prison Guards in this country, we had Prison Warders up until the 1920's, we now have Prison Officers in the public sector and Prison Custody Officers in the private sector.
I'm a Prison Officer.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

I note from today's news that only a 1/3 of the country now support the Tory austerity agenda and most of us would support a hike in our own taxes to fund better public services.

Hardly surprising when 17% of the UK workforce are employed in the public sector. In effect Labour is asking the other 83% to take a pay cut. When they themselves aren't receiving rises. Or is Corbyn's next off the wall move. A £15 hour minimum wage for the over 25's. In any event a totally unstructured incoherent way to manage a major economy such as the UK.

WolfSong2000

Nurses are paid an appallingly low amount given the work they do, so I understand why they seek out overtime with agencies. They get more pay and have less responsibility. Problem is that you then end up with little to no consistency in terms of patient care; it's difficult to plan staffing levels and the NHS pays more and gets less.

The government has tried to counteract this by introducing caps on pay to agency/contract workers. I used to work as a contractor in the NHS but refuse to now as with these caps I earn less than a full time employee (HMRC has enforced rules which say I would have to pay same tax as a perm employee but get none of the benefits). For those working in very "in demand" roles they can get around this by working via agencies that flout the rules and charge the NHS well in excess of the caps. I've heard of locum doctors being booked into a shift at a hospital only to cancel last minute as another agency has offered them more to work elsewhere.

Tromking

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Hardly surprising when 17% of the UK workforce are employed in the public sector. In effect Labour is asking the other 83% to take a pay cut. When they themselves aren't receiving rises. Or is Corbyn's next off the wall move. A £15 hour minimum wage for the over 25's. In any event a totally unstructured incoherent way to manage a major economy such as the UK.

When you've now got the IFS and Tory Grandees like Letwin and Dorrell saying that pay restraint in the PS is now unsustainable then things clearly have to change, and are by the looks of it.
However it is good that you acknowledge that a mere 17% of the population have been bearing the brunt of the austerity hit.

kabayiri

Tromking wrote: »

When you've now got the IFS and Tory Grandees like Letwin and Dorrell saying that pay restraint in the PS is now unsustainable then things clearly have to change, and are by the looks of it.
However it is good that you acknowledge that a mere 17% of the population have been bearing the brunt of the austerity hit.

That's just rubbish IMO. PS and Private sector took the hit in different ways.

I have friends who work in the PS. They barely noticed the 08/09 crash/recession. In fact, one said they didn't believe it was an actual recession!

Were they lying? Nope. They believed what they said.

It's just that the government adopted a high degree of intervention to get through the period.

This had a knock on. We have had one of the slowest recoveries from a recession.

Tromking

kabayiri wrote: »

That's just rubbish IMO. PS and Private sector took the hit in different ways.

I have friends who work in the PS. They barely noticed the 08/09 crash/recession. In fact, one said they didn't believe it was an actual recession!

Were they lying? Nope. They believed what they said.

It's just that the government adopted a high degree of intervention to get through the period.

This had a knock on. We have had one of the slowest recoveries from a recession.

I remember hardly noticing the 08/09 crash too, it happened in the private sector.
What I do recall however is the public sector pay freeze and the wholesale rationing of money into our public services as a result of that failure in the private sector.
The private sector recovered fairly quickly from the crash and employment and wage growth (until recently) were quite marked.
In my opinion Government intervention was not nuanced enough and relied too heavily on starving our public services of funds.
It looks like that policy is about to change.

kabayiri

Tromking wrote: »

...
In my opinion Government intervention was not nuanced enough and relied too heavily on starving our public services of funds.
It looks like that policy is about to change.

They are starved, but mainly because despite more absolute money going in, the demand is still outstripping supply.

Birth rates are rising; more people coming here; people living longer; improvements in technology increasing expectations.

It's unsurprising that the strains are showing. Nobody ever said the deterioration would be linear. I do performance and stress testing and once you reach certain bottlenecks, things really do go downhill fast.

IMO (only) we need to focus back on to higher productivity.