Public Sector Pay Restraint Ending?

sevenhills

Conrad wrote: »

A nurse prospective client showed me his P60 yesterday, just over £50k. This includes agency hours he does in the same Hospital at the end of his normal shift.

Bloke in my office DIL is a senior nurse aged 32 and she earns over £50k with modest overtime.

Do they have a degree?

For those with a degree, average earnings(2010) increased faster for each year of age, leveling off at the age of 35 and peaking at £34,500 at the age of 51.

kinger101

chucknorris wrote: »

I do agree with a lot of what you post, but overtime should be for 'extras' not normal day to day stuff. Life is short, it shouldn't be spent at work.

What do you mean by "extras"? I think you need to stop watching those Carry On films.

Tromking

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Why do so many nurses prefer to do agency work ? There's where much of the problem lies. That and part time working. Nor do people aspire to the higher grades. In order to avoid the culture in the organisation. (Though there are pockets of transformation). When working nights at weekends also earns a good wedge. Who needs responsibility. Easy to sight one example. Reform won't be easy given the power of the Unions.

Agency work only exists to cover gaps in staff numbers and part time work is popular because it free`s you up to do overtime at premium rates. Staff the public sector properly and this culture disappears instantly.
This is now way bigger than "reform". My workplace now has 68 operational staff dealing with approx. 650 'clients'. We had barely a dozen staff turn up on Sunday to supervise them. Plenty of overtime available but most now travel 250 miles to London for a 12 hour shift sat at a hospital bed and pick up just shy of £600 for the privilege.

kabayiri

If you want to complain about value for money, look no further than the ex DWP staff who were TUPE'd over to the IT companies who won the contract to support the Revenue systems.

Going back a decade there were a bunch of lads recruited after A-level, doing fairly bog standard testing.

Their sale price to the government client? A flat £550 per day.

Hmm, bargain (not)

I don't think some of the purchasing managers in the PS even consider value for money.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

Agency work only exists to cover gaps in staff numbers and part time work is popular because it free`s you up to do overtime at premium rates. Staff the public sector properly and this culture disappears instantly.
This is now way bigger than "reform". My workplace now has 68 operational staff dealing with approx. 650 'clients'. We had barely a dozen staff turn up on Sunday to supervise them. Plenty of overtime available but most now travel 250 miles to London for a 12 hour shift sat at a hospital bed and pick up just shy of £600 for the privilege.

None of which will be solved by giving people an additional £100 or £200 per annum pay rise.

Sambella

I suspect any possible rise may be for emergency workers only.

However some in the public sector did get more than 1% rises for example :-

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/dwp-satisfaction-pay-leaps-after-treasury-lets-it-bust-1-cap

BobQ

Conrad wrote: »

A nurse prospective client showed me his P60 yesterday, just over £50k. This includes agency hours he does in the same Hospital at the end of his normal shift.


Bloke in my office DIL is a senior nurse aged 32 and she earns over £50k with modest overtime.


Just wanted to throw this into the pot.

A recent episode of the Hospital documentary was being filmed at Westminster Hospital when the terrorist incident occurred on the bridge. It started with them filming a management meeting at which it was stated the level of staff vacancies was running at 14% just before the major incident was called.

It stands to reason that with 14% of vacancies there were a lot of expensive agency staff engaged and a lot of overtime being worked. The overtime is unsustainable in the long term of course. So the question is how much of the earnings are overtime?

The nurses will get more public sympathy but the public sector is progressively being filled by contractors to address the retention problems that are faced in many areas.

Windofchange

Conrad wrote: »

A nurse prospective client showed me his P60 yesterday, just over £50k. This includes agency hours he does in the same Hospital at the end of his normal shift.


Bloke in my office DIL is a senior nurse aged 32 and she earns over £50k with modest overtime.


Just wanted to throw this into the pot.

To earn over 50k per year as nurse with limited overtime means you are a very senior nurse:

http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/Employers/Documents/Pay%20and%20reward/AfC%20pay%20bands%20from%201%20April%202017%20-%20FINAL.pdf

That would put them middle of band 8b. To put this into perspective a matron is 8a, and you would be qualified for around 15 - 20 years to hit this, maybe in the region of 10 years if you are an absolute superstar. An 8b would be director of nursing level - I have never heard of a 32 year old hitting this. I think you are exaggerating to prove a point.

Even if you aren't exaggerating, believe me that a nurse earning over 50k a year is very very far from the norm if you are trying to make the point that the public sector is already paid well.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Why do so many nurses prefer to do agency work ? There's where much of the problem lies. That and part time working. Nor do people aspire to the higher grades. In order to avoid the culture in the organisation. (Though there are pockets of transformation). When working nights at weekends also earns a good wedge. Who needs responsibility. Easy to sight one example. Reform won't be easy given the power of the Unions.

They do agency work because it pays more than overtime. They work for agencies full time to get more pay than they would doing the same hours in the NHS.

Aspiration to the higher grades is I agree lacking. The point is that many people are very comfortable doing a job without the stress and pressures that they encounter at the higher grades. It is not always about money. Many people are more interested in spending time with their family, they do not want overtime or status. Provided they reach a grade that satisfies their ambition they are content to just do a good job.

Unions do not stop people being ambitious and as Andy states are not that powerful anymore.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Powerful enough hinder the ability to innovate and change with any speed. Many seem stuck in a bygone age. The world has moved on.

Unions resist change when it is to the detriment of members. Employers that work with unions do get cooperation. Unfortunately many employers just want to impose changes. Unions in Sweden and Germany have a very different relationship with Employers. They are not doing too bad are they?

Yes the world has moved on to one where we have half the population doing low paid jobs with few prospects, the gig economy, ZHC, and lots of part time working. It has also moved on to a state in which pensions are rapidly becoming non existent and terms and conditions being lowered.

I do not see that as progress.

chucknorris

kinger101 wrote: »

What do you mean by "extras"? I think you need to stop watching those Carry On films.

Luxury items such as a extravagant holidays etc.