Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mayonnaise wrote: »

UK consumer spending sees longest decline since 2013


http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-consumers-idUKKBN1AM0WM

Since 2013?
:think:
Tell us please .............. what impending "disaster" led to the decline in 2013?
And why was the UK's GDP for that year growing at the fastest rate since 2007 if consumer spending was in such similar decline?

Arklight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

This is typical of this alternate reality you appear to inhabit.

We've invoked article 50, we've a government in position who will be able to last even without the DUP support through to March 2019 and beyond.

What exactly do you think you can do to stop it? You're clearly not with the majority otherwise the votes, both, would have swung the other way.

You're in a minority of people under 50 who voted for and want Brexit. Since you proudly cast your Leave ballot, 3% of the people who did so with you have died of old age and been replaced by Remain supporters.

WRT your views on the Tory government, you appear to be inhabiting a parallel universe somewhere. Somewhere where instead of them being a collapsing shambles full of backstabbing privileged career politicians who have just been body slammed in an election they called, hot on the heels of being battered in a referendum they called, otherwise couldn't get jobs screwing the tops on Tizer bottles in a bottling factory.

Most of them don't believe in or want Brexit themselves, and it is only the venal inability of the Tory to stand by any actual principles that has stopped the Conservative Brexi-train from derailing.

A committed, competent government firing on all cylinders with the electorate behind it, would have trouble executing Brexit. The Tories are none of these things and on a good day now are nervously wondering whether Paul Dacre will save them from Prime Minister Corbyn in the next election.

This is going to be a very short summer for Theresa May and her band of mutinous Tory turncoats.

No, you will not get your hard Brexit. You will not get it because it is not wanted by any of the people who will have to actually do it, and be required to have the wherewithal to put it into place,. You may well get some kind of Brexit in name only but not much else will change.

I will leave you with Vince Cable:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40842017

Another concern is that the self-declared martyrs may be planning to sacrifice other people rather than themselves. It is striking that the martyrs appear predominantly elderly (indeed the YouGov poll confirmed that fact). This is unsurprising since 64 per cent of over-65s voted Brexit in the referendum and 71 per cent of under-25s voted Remain.
In the campaign, I was struck by the heavily Remain sentiment in colleges and schools and the heavily Brexit mood of church-hall meetings packed with retired people.
The martyrdom of the old comes cheap, since few have jobs to lose. And even if the country were to become poorer, their living standards are largely protected by the 'triple lock' on the state pension and many can rely on occupational, final salary, pensions which are closed to younger people. When I joined the Coalition Cabinet in 2010, we took pride in the 'triple lock' to banish the scourge of pensioner poverty. But one of its unintended consequences has been a growing rift between generations.

Eric_the_half_a_bee

Arklight wrote: »

it is only the venal inability of the Tory to stand by any actual principles that has stopped the Conservative Brexi-train from derailing.

Well that, and the fact that Labour also wants a clean Brexit.

TrickyTree83

Arklight wrote: »

You're in a minority of people under 50 who voted for and want Brexit. Since you proudly cast your Leave ballot, 3% of the people who did so with you have died of old age and been replaced by Remain supporters.

WRT your views on the Tory government, you appear to be inhabiting a parallel universe somewhere. Somewhere where instead of them being a collapsing shambles full of backstabbing privileged career politicians who have just been body slammed in an election they called, hot on the heels of being battered in a referendum they called, otherwise couldn't get jobs screwing the tops on Tizer bottles in a bottling factory.

Most of them don't believe in or want Brexit themselves, and it is only the venal inability of the Tory to stand by any actual principles that has stopped the Conservative Brexi-train from derailing.

A committed, competent government firing on all cylinders with the electorate behind it, would have trouble executing Brexit. The Tories are none of these things and on a good day now are nervously wondering whether Paul Dacre will save them from Prime Minister Corbyn in the next election.

This is going to be a very short summer for Theresa May and her band of mutinous Tory turncoats.

No, you will not get your hard Brexit. You will not get it because it is not wanted by any of the people who will have to actually do it, and be required to have the wherewithal to put it into place,. You may well get some kind of Brexit in name only but not much else will change.

I will leave you with Vince Cable:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40842017

The only stereotype you're confirming here is that of those who "Remoan".

If you search my posts you will find probably hundreds in which I state I would be happy with EEA membership so that we can re-orient our trade, my Brexit stance was aligned with that of Daniel Hannan and not the toxic brand of your imaginary leave voter that you keep trying to push on to everyone who voted to leave.

Regarding the current government, it will only collapse if they themselves make it so. Given that there is a communist/socialist contingent on the opposition front bench it seems to me that will be enough to galvanise the current government to make the mess they've made for themselves work because the alternative of giving JC and his commie mates another crack at it before time is much worse. Anyone who praises the Venezuelan system of government has to be held to their word now, that place is a hell hole under the socialist government and JC thought it was just super, a working example of how socialist policies help the working class. I suppose if JC thinks starvation, riots, murder and now guerrilla civil war are metrics used to measure socialist government success then he would be spot on.

Arklight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The only stereotype you're confirming here is that of those who "Remoan".

If you search my posts you will find probably hundreds in which I state I would be happy with EEA membership so that we can re-orient our trade, my Brexit stance was aligned with that of Daniel Hannan and not the toxic brand of your imaginary leave voter that you keep trying to push on to everyone who voted to leave.

Regarding the current government, it will only collapse if they themselves make it so. Given that there is a communist/socialist contingent on the opposition front bench it seems to me that will be enough to galvanise the current government to make the mess they've made for themselves work because the alternative of giving JC and his commie mates another crack at it before time is much worse. Anyone who praises the Venezuelan system of government has to be held to their word now, that place is a hell hole under the socialist government and JC thought it was just super, a working example of how socialist policies help the working class. I suppose if JC thinks starvation, riots, murder and now guerrilla civil war are metrics used to measure socialist government success then he would be spot on.

It would probably help in your critique of the Labour Party if you at very least understood what Communism is and the difference between that and Socialism.

Socialism is rich people paying their taxes which are reinvested into public services. Opportunities for those that can take advantage of them and a safety net for those who trip up.

Communism is the state confiscating property and nationalising supermarkets. As the difference between the two is as stark as small c conservatism is to fascism, and no one is proposing Communism perhaps you and your similarly confused alt-right keyboard warrior friends might correct your understanding?

always_sunny

cogito wrote: »

Your stance appears to be that it's OK for one nation to seize the territory of another. How 19th century.

If Russia occupied parts of Georgia under the pretext of protecting Russians living there, how would you feel about that?

I think it's not so clean cut though. It's not like if Russia invaded Switzerland and said, this is Russia now. I agree the whole thing should have been handled better but it's also true that the majority of people living there do affiliate themselves with Russia.

How would you feel if say there's a referendum in NI to ask whether RoI should be united and yes wins. Would you think RoI or the EU occupied parts of the UK?
I think for many people in the GB it'd be a major shock.

kabayiri

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The only stereotype you're confirming here is that of those who "Remoan".

If you search my posts you will find probably hundreds in which I state I would be happy with EEA membership so that we can re-orient our trade, my Brexit stance was aligned with that of Daniel Hannan and not the toxic brand of your imaginary leave voter that you keep trying to push on to everyone who voted to leave.
...

It's a comfort blanket thing. Arklight needs to come to terms somehow with the fact that people are entitled different opinion.

Brexit will happen. It's just the form it takes which is open to interpretation.

On the flipside, the EU which we knew will not remain the same either. There will be EU opportunists who see Brexit as a driving reason for closer integration, not less.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

There will be EU opportunists who see Brexit as a driving reason for closer integration, not less.

Definitely. We've been holding the EU back in a lot of ways so it'll be interesting to see what they do when we stop vetoing everything.

always_sunny

kabayiri wrote: »

There will be EU opportunists who see Brexit as a driving reason for closer integration, not less.

Absolutely and as an EU national I see that as a great thing. Poaching business from the UK will also be high on the agenda for the EU.

The argument is valid for both sides, like in the UK impact on the economy is a good price to pay for sovereignty, for the EU sidelining [money from] the UK is a good price to pay for cohesion.
The EU knows is in a good position to absorb the shock.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

Definitely. We've been holding the EU back in a lot of ways so it'll be interesting to see what they do when we stop vetoing everything.

They are moving to qualified majority voting anyway, because they know they have to deal with dissenters within their own ranks. This is typified by the Visegraad group.

Poland and Hungary have expressed outright hostility to EU policy. We have been rather more compliant and supportive. Our record of membership shows this. We are the number 2 top contributor and have been in the top 3 most years.