Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

kabayiri

LeeU wrote: »

...
I've seen Malmo and the trouble at night cause by what the Swedes call their uninvited guests, it's terrible, cars being burnt out, roaming gangs of youths, etc, the police are powerless as these gangs know they only have to tell the police they are 15 and there's nothing the police can do; they take them to the station and hand them over to social services who then release them, there's no way of checking their ages, etc.

Do you get to Gothenburg?
It's a different feel round there. I still love Sweden, and Denmark.

Hamish disagrees with the idea that there are hotspots, but I believe there are.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Herzlos wrote: »

We're only keeping them on the back foot by giving them nothing to react to; I don't think we're out negotiating or out-preparing them. I'd be on the back foot trying to play chess with a pigeon. I'm not sure how this helps us?

So you're going to ignore my earlier post altogether?

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Because so far the UK has generally kept the EU on the back foot as it were, and there is much to support my opinion of which here are just some:

Cameron calling the referendum after returning from his jaunt around the EU with no more than a proverbial "flea in the ear" - leading to vehement pro-EU rhetoric which continues to this day.

The UK delaying the putting forward of Article 50 until we were ready, much to the very obvious chagrin of EU politico's.

Notice of intention around citizens from before the referendum even, all discarded by the EU and with the added request now of a desire to allow outside law to take precedence over UK sovereignty this makes the EU look increasingly intimidating too.

The UK giving notice of withdrawal from EU fishing policies etc.

The EU who promised they would be "open" will not give a figure for the so-called "Brexit bill" - but want agreement it will be paid.


And so it goes on; the result however is that the EU have done not much more than bluster so far, although this is no more than was expected.
Oh and again I am not suggesting that the UK has been perfect so far either; far from it. But IMHO it is the EU who have largely been on that back foot.

In case you were unaware of how negotiation works, the objective is to get the best possible outcome for the least possible cost.
By continually forcing Eurocrats into a defensive or reactionary stance and playing to their weaknesses we are increasing our likelihood of that eventual outcome.
That is the answer to your question "I'm not sure how this helps us?"

phillw

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

An interesting read:
"Staying in the Single Market would be counter-productive, not pragmatic"
http://www.cityam.com/269630/staying-single-market-would-counter-productive-not

Yes, which is kinda the opposite of what a lot of brexiters voted for:

"Domestically, this means reducing the size of the state – less tax, less spending, less regulation."

Say good bye to the NHS, benefits, liveable pensions, standard of living etc etc.

Exactly what I've been saying the brexiters were conned into voting for brexit by the rich with hidden agendas (Nigel Farage, BoJo etc). All you need to do is hold your nerve and their vision of the country could actually happen. Then the ASA will say we can no longer call it Great Britain.

Arklight

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Perhaps the short term pain will result in longer term well being though.

Yes, the short term pain, all of which will be born by younger people, is worth the long term gain for them, of turning the clock back to the 50s.

And they wonder why they are called the Selfish Generation.

phillw

Arklight wrote: »

Yes, the short term pain, all of which will be born by younger people, is worth the long term gain for them, of turning the clock back to the 50s.

And they wonder why they are called the Selfish Generation.

And there isn't even a long term gain. Once you start on a backwards path it's difficult to stop the direction of travel. The conditions for us begging to be let into europe will happen again..

kabayiri

phillw wrote: »

...
And up until brexit you had a choice of 28 countries to work in and all those countries were trying to protect jobs from the countries outside the EU club. Now you have 1 country you can work in and 1 country protecting against the rest of the world. Your children are in for a rough ride unless someone figures out how to make money from magical thinking.

It's a valid premise, but they weren't doing a very good job of this protecting labour.

The high rates of youth unemployment in Southern Europe bear witness to this.

The UK alone has lost tens of thousands of technical jobs to India alone, and the EU might as well have been non-existent. In fact, they made it harder for me to take Indian IT people around Europe, and we ended up having to ship the work out!

I do think we are in for a rough ride though. We have to decide on what our focus is, being a volume labour country or one which spends heavily on efficiency and R&D.

TrickyTree83

phillw wrote: »

And up until brexit you had a choice of 28 countries to work in and all those countries were trying to protect jobs from the countries outside the EU club. Now you have 1 country you can work in and 1 country protecting against the rest of the world. Your children are in for a rough ride unless someone figures out how to make money from magical thinking.

You have a choice of any country in the world to work in so long as you meet their criteria for doing so. Stop with the lies, it's over already, we're leaving.

kabayiri

phillw wrote: »

...
Exactly what I've been saying the brexiters were conned into voting for brexit by the rich with hidden agendas (Nigel Farage, BoJo etc). All you need to do is hold your nerve and their vision of the country could actually happen. Then the ASA will say we can no longer call it Great Britain.

Both sides were guilty of conning the voters, to some extent. But then...we are talking about politicians here.

I think the referendum had the wrong question. I think they could have started with a first question, 'do you want free migration movement or not'. It's less ambiguous and open to misinterpretation.

TrickyTree83

phillw wrote: »

And there isn't even a long term gain. Once you start on a backwards path it's difficult to stop the direction of travel. The conditions for us begging to be let into europe will happen again..

Time traveller? Mystic? Prophet?

What are you if you're able to categorically state that there is no long term gain by being completely and utterly independent?

How do the majority of countries manage it... perhaps you can use your powers to tell us that too?

kabayiri

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You have a choice of any country in the world to work in so long as you meet their criteria for doing so. Stop with the lies, it's over already, we're leaving.

There are some massive opportunities coming.

I firmly believe that 3D printing will at some point completely change the way in which we ship product.

(I would say this though; I've got a 3D scanner on order; can't wait).