Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

A_Medium_Size_Jock

ilovehouses wrote: »

The UK appears to be under prepared rather than done nothing.

Barnier has been living and breathing Brexit strategy for months. Davis has been diverted by a leadership election, a general election and having to pop back to support a weak government as and when.

That's why Davis was forced to adopt the EU's agenda and timescales (the day one u-turn). That's what happens when you're unprepared - you don't get to drive the agenda.

I have no desire to become embroiled in further tit-for-tat episodes so I will only say this:

Generally I agree with your precis.
Regarding who drives the agenda however, a few points:

The UK has so far successfully driven the timings of Brexit from the delivery of Article 50 to a date for negotiations as a result of our GE. To the consternation of EU politicos it would appear from past comments etc.

The UK has no deciding say on any agreement other than "no deal".
The EU holds all the power in deciding the outcome; this was widely accepted prior to the referendum as it is clearly explained in the Treaty Of Lisbon, and explained here:
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Herzlos wrote: »

You know what you edit quotes, it means no-one can quote you, right?


Most of your answers are total cop outs.

Re. "no deal" planning; we don't need to know the details, but since the latest position from Davis was that no planning had been done, it'd be good to get an update saying that now have a contingency plan, or have at least set an intern to work.

Re. "what deal do we want"; that wasn't asked in the referendum. It's not been made clear by anyone. We've asserted a few times that we will and won't leave the single market, will and won't leave the customs unions, will and won't pay into the EU, and so on.

How many Brexit related white papers have come out of the Brexit team? I'd assumed there was just the one (started in February and finished a few hours before A50 was triggered).

Are you just looking to disagree?
Fine, then disagree.
But how the heck you think it possible to fully and accurately respond to anything which itself has not been detailed fully and accurately is not possible.

It is akin to asking a builder to build you a house but giving no plans or indeed not even describing what you want or supplying a budget, i.e. it's not gonna happen.

White paper - the repeal bill or the February Brexit which I would assume you to mean?
So you might like to be updated what? Weekly?
Why ask me; ask your MP and see what answer you get.
IMHO your disagreement has nothing to do with anyone being underprepared, it has to do with you not being as informed as you would like.
Well unless you find a way of changing that, you're stuck with the rest of the British population.

kabayiri

I'd personally like to see the opposite of what people see here.

I'd like to see the EU suggest what they are prepared to offer the UK, in the whole package (including rights and exit payments and ongoing access).

Then the UK can either accept or walk away.

The current path is going to lead to 11th hour panic negotiations.

Herzlos

I don't imagine we'll ever agree, to be fair.

I'm not expecting *you* to provide anything, but you're the one implying that the UK team is well prepared for the negotiations. You're entitled to feel that they are, I'm entitled to feel that they aren't.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

I'd personally like to see the opposite of what people see here.

I'd like to see the EU suggest what they are prepared to offer the UK, in the whole package (including rights and exit payments and ongoing access).

Then the UK can either accept or walk away.

The current path is going to lead to 11th hour panic negotiations.

I think you're right. This is what's going to happen at the 11th hour so the EU may as well try and get it out of the way up front and stop wasting any time on negotiating anything else with us.

I'd be happy if the EU made us a formal offer with 3 choices (WTO, Tariff Free goods & contributions, Norway stle), and left us to choose one.

kabayiri

Oh they are dragging it out. Nobody believes they spend all month planning stuff. The EU is a job club for the privileged.

I've lost any respect I had for the club anyway. It exists to feed itself.

How can they have a hundreds of billions Euro unfunded liability like Reste a Liquider?

Nobody ever mentioned this piece of EU incontinence during the referendum debate.

We were told just how good value this organisation was, and yet it has a growing unfunded liability which we are on the hook for. Of course, the usual countries will get away with paying not much at all.

GreatApe

Retirement age increase to 68 has been bought forward by 7 years

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/state-pension-age-workers-people-extra-year-68-increase-retirement-age-david-gauke-a7849091.html

I recall saying before the referendum the biggest impact will be the retirement age. If we accept high migration we will have a lower retirement age and if we reduce migration we will have a higher retirement age

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Herzlos wrote: »

I don't imagine we'll ever agree, to be fair.

I'm not expecting *you* to provide anything, but you're the one implying that the UK team is well prepared for the negotiations. You're entitled to feel that they are, I'm entitled to feel that they aren't.

Quite so, but a minor point?
I have not anywhere implied that "UK team is well prepared for the negotiations" and I suggest you read again; what I refuted is the implication that the UK had not prepared at all as per my original post

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Not preparing at all eh?

As you say though, we will in probability never agree.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

It looks like another remainer scare story may be proven wrong with BMW choosing Oxford to build the electric Mini according to this report:

BMW's Oxford factory is currently the favoured location for building an electric version of the Mini, two sources familiar with the company's thinking told Reuters on Wednesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-bmw-mini-idUKKBN1A41NR?il=0

Herzlos

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

It looks like another remainer scare story may be proven wrong with BMW choosing Oxford to build the electric Mini according to this report:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-bmw-mini-idUKKBN1A41NR?il=0

You're normally at pains to point out how this is an unsubstantiated rumour at this stage, by anonymous sources, were this something negative about the UK.

"A final decision has not been taken."

It'd be good for the UK if we did build them here, and we've likely to, but this is pretty much a non-story.