Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

A_Medium_Size_Jock

always_sunny wrote: »

And wasn't the intent/hope of many Brexiteers to make sure the EU collapses?

Show us where please?

I have seen many reports and indeed posted some myself of threats to the Union from quite a variety of sources and/or angles but I cannot remember seeing any hope of the EU's collapse.
These threats persist BTW in the form of migration; banking, economic disparity etc. etc. etc.
But if the EU "collapses" that would inevitably affect the UK, only less-so if we are no longer a member state.

Herzlos

I don't think Brexiteers want the EU to collapse. Except maybe as post-justification for Brexit. I think it's just being used as a justification still - "We need to leave the UK because it's going to collapse any second" not realising that if it collapses we're screwed whether in or out, and that we can potentially save it if we are in, whilst from outside we just need to watch helplessly.

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Not preparing at all eh?

If they are so prepared, how come they've admitted to not being prepared in the recent past, and have shown no evidence of actually being prepared?

If they want to put the public right on how prepared they are, they could, you know, show us something. Anything.


Asking lots of questions in a meeting doesn't mean they were prepared. It just means they asked lots of questions.

mayonnaise

Wrong number.

Davis committed his own Brexit blunder the day Article 50 was triggered in March, according to EU and British officials, when he placed a call to Timo Soini, Finland’s foreign minister and a critic of the EU. Having been told he was speaking to Soini, Davis announced down the phone in enthusiastic terms that Brexit had begun, and that he needed the Finn’s support to secure a good deal from the EU.

Only when he heard the voice at the other end of the line did Davis realize he was in fact speaking to Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/y8xukDRicGKHvZBt7AhMTI/Britains-Brexit-chaos-leaves-EU-friends-and-foes-bemused.html
:rotfl:

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Herzlos wrote: »

I don't think Brexiteers want the EU to collapse. Except maybe as post-justification for Brexit. I think it's just being used as a justification still - "We need to leave the UK because it's going to collapse any second" not realising that if it collapses we're screwed whether in or out, and that we can potentially save it if we are in, whilst from outside we just need to watch helplessly.


If they are so prepared, how come they've admitted to not being prepared in the recent past, and have shown no evidence of actually being prepared?

If they want to put the public right on how prepared they are, they could, you know, show us something. Anything.


Asking lots of questions in a meeting doesn't mean they were prepared. It just means they asked lots of questions.

Conversely if they are not so prepared, how come the repeal bill was ready for presentation to parliament?
How was the intent to reform fishing presented?
Citizens rights proposals put forward?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mayonnaise wrote: »

Let's not forget the 'punishment' is not being done by the EU.
The punishment was entirely self inflicted by the UK electorate who thought it was a good idea to turn our backs on the largest and most prosperous free-trade area in the world.

Uh, not quite.

Firstly the UK voted to leave and whether or not the UK suffers economically as a result (and only time will tell) should not be at the whim of the so-called Union it has decided to leave.

Secondly "the largest and most prosperous free-trade area in the world" is debatable since no other free trade area insists upon free movement of citizens & other things according to this:

The EU is a single market, which is similar to a free trade area in that it has no tariffs, quotas or taxes on trade; but a single market allows the free movement of goods, services, capital and people.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/05/world-free-trade-areas-everything-you-need-to-know/
Also see: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/free_trade_area.asp

Neither do those free trade areas deliberately and severely disadvantage other nations as the EU may attempt with the UK.

Herzlos

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Conversely if they are not so prepared, how come the repeal bill was ready for presentation to parliament?
How was the intent to reform fishing presented?
Citizens rights proposals put forward?

Fair enough, some small amount of work with fairly limited scope has been done.

What's our response to the divorce bill? Where's our estimated costings?
What's our plan for trade? For replacement of all of the agencies?
Do we have a "no deal" contingency yet?
How are we dealing with immigration?
What deal do we actually want?

has our last-minute white paper been updated yet?

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

Fair enough, some small amount of work with fairly limited scope has been done.

What's our response to the divorce bill? Where's our estimated costings?
What's our plan for trade? For replacement of all of the agencies?
Do we have a "no deal" contingency yet?
How are we dealing with immigration?
What deal do we actually want?

has our last-minute white paper been updated yet?

Just because there's been no announcements doesn't mean that there isn't work going on. On many of these topics matters will evolve. After all destiny is in our own hands.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Herzlos wrote: »

Fair enough, some small amount of work with fairly limited scope has been done.

What's our response to the divorce bill? Where's our estimated costings? How much is this bill & where are those costings? The Brexit team's response is detailed in an earlier post; they are questioning every detail for clarification from the EU.
What's our plan for trade? For replacement of all of the agencies? What has been decided regarding trade during Brexit negotiations so that an effective plan may be formulated? What agencies have these Brexit negotiations confirmed will need replacing? * See also note below.
Do we have a "no deal" contingency yet? Do you seriously expect to be informed of this when it may be detrimental to Brexit negotiations?
How are we dealing with immigration? In the manner allowed as members of the EU. Still. Did you mean "how will we?" for which a plan may yet be forthcoming.
What deal do we actually want? From the question as posed in the referendum, to leave the EU.

has our last-minute white paper been updated yet?
Please clarify which white paper you refer to and whether updating is necessary or just what you personally would like to see.

Responses as above highlighted in red.
Re: * "See note below" is the following on regulators post-Brexit:

Exclusive: Britain may need fewer than 10 new regulators post-Brexit - government source

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-regulators-idUKKBN1A40PH


Admittedly what is actually wanted from Brexit is not so easy to answer since in the referendum the only options were "stay" or "leave".
Brexit means many things to many people and sadly many of these "things" are polarizing the nation as can be seen in media and in threads like this.
Migration and trade are just a few examples. Have a look at threads in these forums for an idea of the diversity of opinion surrounding a range of Brexit-related topics.

Because of such polarization it will IMHO be impossible to please everybody and the best that can be hoped for is to satisfy a majority.
Failure to satisfy the majority of the UK may well lead to unwanted consequences, one of which is - potentially - civil unrest.

Put simply, despite the wishes of some there is no easy answer to anything regarding Brexit.
Whether pro-remain or pro-leave, we are undoubtedly in for a period of uncertainty during which some people will be happy and others not so.
We are a long way yet from actually leaving the EU.

Herzlos

It's not that there haven't been anouncements. Davis has admitted that some of it hasn't been done.

Then his performance indicates a lot of the planning hasn't been done. You can't turn up to a meeting to discuss a 12-page summary of costs without being either (a) extremely arrogant or (b) totally unprepared.

Being underprepared seems to be a better way of putting it.

I still don't believe our Brexit team have any idea of what they are trying to achieve.

Herzlos

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Responses as above highlighted in red.

You know what you edit quotes, it means no-one can quote you, right?


Most of your answers are total cop outs.

Re. "no deal" planning; we don't need to know the details, but since the latest position from Davis was that no planning had been done, it'd be good to get an update saying that now have a contingency plan, or have at least set an intern to work.

Re. "what deal do we want"; that wasn't asked in the referendum. It's not been made clear by anyone. We've asserted a few times that we will and won't leave the single market, will and won't leave the customs unions, will and won't pay into the EU, and so on.

How many Brexit related white papers have come out of the Brexit team? I'd assumed there was just the one (started in February and finished a few hours before A50 was triggered).