Training away from the office

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

Latheofheaven wrote: »

If we are told to be in Manchester, for example, until 4.30 bit we finish at 4 it is as if we are on call for that last half hour as up until 4pm we had no idea we would be finishing earlier. That half hour is not ours as we could not plan for it or use it effectively. Do you understand?

Everyone understands what you are saying. It's nonsense.

Firstly, you state that the time isn't yours if you can't plan for it. While this would be annoying if it were a regular thing, it isn't a regular thing. It's a one off for this week of training. The fact that you can't plan for it doesn't mean you can't use it.

Secondly, everyone has suggested that if you don't want a short day, simply go back to your office and then leave at the regular time. Why are you refusing to address this? What's wrong with doing that?

k3lvc

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

Secondly, everyone has suggested that if you don't want a short day, simply go back to your office and then leave at the regular time. Why are you refusing to address this? What's wrong with doing that?

Because that obviously breaches some entitlement/right of the OP and would no doubt require union involvement.

I love the NHS, I really do but parts of this thread typify exactly what's wrong with it.

Latheofheaven

Scorpion, it is not a one off. It is several times per year. And it affects everyone. I don't agree with you some of you who appear to think it is bad to fight to be paid for all the time you work or are at the disposal of work.

I am going to continue fighting for workers' rights whenever I think it is appropriate to do so. If you can't answer a question without getting very judgemental then I feel bad for you because it isn't good to worry about that stuff. Maybe take a step back sometimes and ask whether you need to use accusatory speech and make a nice brew instead.

Thanks everyone for the constructive information :-)

custardy

Several training sessions a year?
seems like there should be a but more working and less flexing,training and pontificating.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

Latheofheaven wrote: »

Scorpion, it is not a one off. It is several times per year. And it affects everyone. I don't agree with you some of you who appear to think it is bad to fight to be paid for all the time you work or are at the disposal of work.

I am going to continue fighting for workers' rights whenever I think it is appropriate to do so. If you can't answer a question without getting very judgemental then I feel bad for you because it isn't good to worry about that stuff. Maybe take a step back sometimes and ask whether you need to use accusatory speech and make a nice brew instead.

Thanks everyone for the constructive information :-)

So if it finishes early, why can't you go back to the office and leave at the normal time, for the fifteenth time of asking?

Latheofheaven

Scorpion - so the woman whose children are in nursery should get the car pool to drop her back at the office at 4.30 (traffic and dropoff may alter this time) so she can work until 6.30 to make up her 8 hour day? She then has a 45 minute drive home to pick up her children. She had to drop them at nursery at 7 to get to training on time too. Seems ok though right? She is just complaining for the sake of it.

custardy

Latheofheaven wrote: »

Scorpion - so the woman whose children are in nursery should get the car pool to drop her back at the office at 4.30 (traffic and dropoff may alter this time) so she can work until 6.30 to make up her 8 hour day? She then has a 45 minute drive home to pick up her children. She had to drop them at nursery at 7 to get to training on time too. Seems ok though right? She is just complaining for the sake of it.

So in short,nobody is able to make up time.
I assume those in these situations are really working fixed contracts as flexibility causes childcare issues?

Latheofheaven

Scorpion - so the woman whose children are in nursery should get the car pool to drop her back at the office at 4.30 (traffic and dropoff may alter this time) so she can work until 6.30 to make up her 8 hour day? She then has a 45 minute drive home to pick up her children. She had to drop them at nursery at 7 to get to training on time too. Seems ok though right? She is just complaining for the sake of it.

This was the situation before I fought for travel time. She now gets that. But they still take 1hr 15 breaks off her. I am fighting for that. So it is just 45 minutes she has to make up now. So she can go back and finish at 5.15 and pick her kids up at 6ish now. Still a bloody long day for them. And for her.

And training is mandatory. We have a difficult job and need to be up to date.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

Latheofheaven wrote: »

Scorpion - so the woman whose children are in nursery should get the car pool to drop her back at the office at 4.30 (traffic and dropoff may alter this time) so she can work until 6.30 to make up her 8 hour day? She then has a 45 minute drive home to pick up her children. She had to drop them at nursery at 7 to get to training on time too. Seems ok though right? She is just complaining for the sake of it.

Why would she have to work until 6.30? The time travelling back to the office is being counted. What on earth are you talking about?

If she got to the office at 8, travelled to training for 9, then her 7.5 hours is up at 4:30. If training finishes any time after 3:30, then the hour travelling back to the office means she has worked at least a 7.5 hour day.

Only if training finishes before 3:30 would she have to stay in the office until 4:30 when she got back. There are no circumstances where she has to stay until 6:30.

FBaby

if a course is advertised as finishing at 4.30, that is when it should finish and that is the time that should be paid for.

But it hasn't though. It's been advertised as finishing at 4:30 but maybe earlier.

I believe that all staff should be afforded the same rights, whatever their position - up to chief executive level.

You're totally deluded because you are only focus on what YOU (and colleagues) don't get and forgetting what you do get. Do you really think the CE can go home and when called 1/2 hour after he has done so, respond to the announcement that the place is burning down 'sorry but my hours are only 37.5 a week as my B2 colleagues, so call someone on duty now, it's not my problem'!

You suffer from a massive sense of entitlement. Yes, they are rules, yes there are to be respected, but some things you just do because you accept that when your employer/manager/colleague offer you something they don't have to do legally, which the NHS probably does more than any other employer, you accept to give a little back.

I bet you've never gone to your Union, saying that's not fair that your friend who is employed by another company only get 2 weeks full sick pay when you get 6 months, and therefore you would like your Union to fight for you to reduce this to be more in line with what others do. No, all you care in make a big fuss for being expected to be, Maybe, just Maybe, flexible around a maximum of a few hours.

As said, it's people like you who give a very bad name to all those very dedicated NHS staff members, those who agree to use their personal car to pick up others in case of bad snow, those who worked evenings and week-ends for free, including non clinical staff, when there was an outbreak of the flu, those managers who work 45 hours or more each week without a penny more because that's the only way the work can be done. Just get on with it and pick your fights.