the snap general election thread

Ronaldo_Mconaldo

It's this sorry society's latest step in the "prizes for all" ideology. We had an election but the winners didn't actually win: they lost and the people that actually lost? Well, wouldn't you know it, they actually won!

So everyone's a winner (and loser) and we all continue together.

Fella

Herzlos wrote: »

Is Corbyn and Labour in a better or worse position now than 6 months ago?

There are two possible answers to this.

Being charitable, their position is better: Previously they were in an terrible position. That has now improved to being merely dreadful.

Being uncharitable, their position is worse. Previously they faced a maximum of 3 years until the next election. Now it's a maximum of 5. Additionally, the far-left and the liability that is Corbyn now have a relative stranglehold on the party.

However whichever answer you give, it doesn't change the fact that Corbyn got trounced in the election. Fewer seats than the utter failure Kinnock. And unlike Kinnock, Corbyn was up against a weak campaign & a poor manifesto.

Herzlos

Ronaldo_Mconaldo wrote: »

It's this sorry society's latest step in the "prizes for all" ideology. We had an election but the winners didn't actually win: they lost and the people that actually lost? Well, wouldn't you know it, they actually won!

So everyone's a winner (and loser) and we all continue together.

It's more likely politics. The party which crossed the line first had to do so with a £1bn bung to a party that's somehow even nastier than they are, at the cost of a huge internal fractions and loss of credibility.

What were May's goals for the GE? Which of them did she achieve?
She gave away some majority, she didn't get a clear mandate, she didn't shut up any backbenchers. She came across as a woman out of her depth and scared of the electorate.
According to her, she cried when she saw the results, and she's also apologised to the party and the MP's whose seats she lost. Does that sound like someone who won?

On the other hand, Corbyn seems to have gone from a contentious non-entity in politics to someone who seems a bit credible, now has backing from his party, and is more approachable than May. Allegedly he's also been in talks with Brussels, who seem to rather talk to him than May.

So sure, Tories were the first past the post, but I think the fiasco has hurt them badly. A victory, but one that's borderline Phyrric. Can they afford to keep winning like this?

Fella

Herzlos wrote: »

Allegedly he's also been in talks with Brussels, who seem to rather talk to him than May.

Um, if Brussels would rather deal with Corbyn than May you shouldn't need much effort to work out who they consider to be the tougher opponent in a negotiation......

Malthusian

Herzlos wrote: »

On the other hand, Corbyn seems to have gone from a contentious non-entity in politics to someone who seems a bit credible, now has backing from his party, and is more approachable than May. Allegedly he's also been in talks with Brussels, who seem to rather talk to him than May.

People are conflating the question "was the election good for Labour" with "was the election good for Corbyn". Obviously it was good for Corbyn as he has strengthened his grip on the Labour Party (and Corbynists don't care about winning elections as they believe the revolution is inevitable and democracy is inessential). It was not good for the Labour Party, for exactly the same reason.

Herzlos

Fella wrote: »

Um, if Brussels would rather deal with Corbyn than May you shouldn't need much effort to work out who they consider to be the tougher opponent in a negotiation......

Or that he's the one who'll be making the decisions, or be the one that they'll actually be able to negotiate with, or that they just don't want to be in the same room as May.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

On the other hand, Corbyn seems to have gone from a contentious non-entity in politics to someone who seems a bit credible, now has backing from his party, and is more approachable than May.

Says who. The man behind the mask will reveal himself at some point. Nor do I believe for one minute that the party is united behind him. Other than to further their own political careers.

zarf2007

Herzlos wrote: »

Or that he's the one who'll be making the decisions, or be the one that they'll actually be able to negotiate with, or that they just don't want to be in the same room as May.

Please, if he were to take over negotiations the EU would screw him over so fast we would have been better to remain.

Fella

Herzlos wrote: »

Or that he's the one who'll be making the decisions, or be the one that they'll actually be able to negotiate with, or that they just don't want to be in the same room as May.

You've wandered off into fantasy. He lost the election & isn't making any decisions. And the EU don't get to choose who they negotiate with.

Herzlos

zarf2007 wrote: »

Please, if he were to take over negotiations the EU would screw him over so fast we would have been better to remain.

Because May isn't about to get steamrolled by the EU?

Fella wrote: »

You've wandered off into fantasy. He lost the election & isn't making any decisions. And the EU don't get to choose who they negotiate with.

Indeed. I was just refuting the idea that the EU not wanting to negoiate with May says anything about about how tough a negotiator Theresa "U-Turn" May is.